why do I suck at recording drums?

[jmligt]

Here's a recently recorded song. Everything sounds good to me except for the stupid fucking snare drum. Any comments would be appreciated...

http://silentage.net/MP3s/Silent_Age-Airplane_Song.mp3



Here's another one. We sucked it up pretty bad in this recording, so I just put a shload of reverb on the snare to "weird it up a bit." Kind of works, maybe....

http://silentage.net/MP3s/Silent_Age-mypictures.mp3

Both of these were done with a D112 on the kick, 57 on the snare, and neumann km84's as overheads. 57 on the guitars. DI Bass. AKG 414 on the vox. Everything recorded onto Pro Tools through a digi 002 with a presonus digimax preamp/A-D.

[lighght]

nice song, good work overall. As far as the snare sound goes - are you tracking the instruments together, and in what kind of room. the snare may be getting lost because of phasing issues.

[jmligt]

We tracked in a "finished" basement (carpeted, with foam on the walls here and there) the drums were in the basement with the guitar in the garage and the bass DI. I figured by only using 4 mics I'd keep the phase issues to a minimum on the drums, I'm pretty sure we adhered to the 3:1 rule. Thanks for the comment.

[dynomike]

I listened to the first track. The guitars sound really good.. but you're right, the drums are abismal.

I honestly, on my brother's relatively crappy stereo, couldn't hear the bass at all in most of the song. I think you need a lot more bass. And a little less reverb on the cleanish guitar.

In terms of drums.. what's very odd is that the cymbals sound clear, although a little too focused, but the snare is so dark its crazy. I'd tune that snare up, and a lot.. if its got damping on it, get rid of the damping. The kick drum is also mostly inaudible. It sounds muddy and damped.. where are your mics?

I'd set the km84's in x-y about 4 feet above the bass drum... and tune the drums till the kit sounds good in that setup. Then, stick the d112 in the kick port (if it is ported), and in a few inches, pointing straight in - not at the middle of the beater side, just straight on. Check for phase and move the mic or flip the phase so it sounds good with the overheads in mono.

Snare, again, make sure it has enough snap to your ears in the room! It sounds like it's tuned way too low for the style of music. The sm57 is fine, it always sounds 'decent' a few inches above the rim, pointed at the centre of the batter head.

I dunno.. I think its mostly tuning.. but with these mics set up as I described, I'd think the sound to be quite a bit different to what I heard on the mp3.

Mike

[smtcharlie]

I do not run a studio, I really fall into the mid to low level "home studio" crowd. That being said, I have better luck with drums when I back mic's off the drums. Your snare sounds like you are close mic'ing the top only and not getting too much room sound nor the botton of the snare. Advice above should be great for getting more of the total kit out of your overheads and that should get you started on the path to what you want to go, I think.

Then again, I love to use just one mic on drums!

smtcharlie

-----------
www.smalltimecharlie.com
alt-acoustic music

[jmligt]

Thanks for the comments. I'm definitely in the less is more crowd when it comes to micing drums. The basement we recorded in didn't have much "room" to it, so that's probably a lot of the problem right there. We did dampen the hell out of the snare because there was a terrible ring going on, that was probably a mistake in hindsight.

Here's a question.... If you're stuck recording in a "less than perfect (read:shitty)" room, is it better to use one mic as the overhead to capture less of the room or use more? Any opinions?

I'm thinking of maybe sticking to one LDC instead of two SDCs. Good? Bad? Indifferent?

-Lig

[rubensinclair]

where did you place your snare drum mic? do you have a "system" of micing drums?
recently i ended up with a really dead snare sound on a demo, and since i didn't want to re-track it, and it was one of those "that'll never happen again moments" i just put a bunch of overdrive on the snare drum channel and messed around with my compressor until it started to sounded good enough that you wouldn't really notice it unless you were looking for it. it might be worth a shot?

[jmligt]

I placed the sm57 just of the rim pointing towards somewhere between the center and the rim of the drum, maybe an inch of the head. I still don't have a "system" of micing drums, as I've been trying as many different approaches as possible to see what they all sound like. Lately I've been sticking to the kick and snare mic with one or two overheads. I've always used a 57 on the snare though. I think next time I'm going to try something different....

[stinkpot]

first, i confess i haven't listened to your stuff yet (wife is sleeping). however, as someone who records lots of drums in a teeny tiny room with LOW ceilings, may i suggest putting some semi short gobo/ baffle thingys (i use 3 office cubical dividers) around the front of the kit, keeping the door open, and running a mic down the hall or into the next room. this helps me create space around the drums and maximize my limited natural acoustics. i also don't have the room deadend with foam or anything like that. just a blanket on the back wall (mostly for light management...) the "hall mic" really beefs everthing up. i generally use an AT4050 set to omni for that. it's a nice sound. watch for noises you may not want though, like the furnace. sometimes i have to be a little chilly.
hope this helps.

[black ark]

We did dampen the hell out of the snare because there was a terrible ring going on, that was probably a mistake in hindsight.

ya, usually the ring gets lost when the guitars come in. (nice guitars, by the by..)

when i was faced with a similar dead snare sound (due to tuning a new head too low and not hitting it hard enough), i used a compressor with a fast attack and release and added distortion. the compressor chopped off the attack of the stick leaving what little ring there was left on the poor snare. the distortion exaggerated the ring (and the hi-hat.) maybe you could copy the snare and put it on another track and mess with it until it sounds good with the old snare track? maybe some reverb? that might fit in with the music... though the dry sound of the snare is sort of an interesting counterpoint to the guitars...

i know finding out that the drums suck after everything else has been recorded is depressing but you could look on the bright side and call it "an experiment on the effects of compression on snare drums."

how 'bout that?

-paul m.

[black ark]

hey, the reverb on the second song's snare seems kinda cool to my ears. it reminds me of something the cramps would have done on thier first record... but it would've been a stomp beat.

-paul m.

[junkstar]

I just experienced my first drum recording nightmare scenario a few days ago. After a ton of swapping out mics, re-positioning, etc, it became clear (I'm no expert obviously) that it was the set and the performer. Sometimes it is not your own fault, and damn it, drumsets and drummers can be very unpredictable.