Fixing out of phase guitar

[gbhansen666]

I recently recorded a project where I split out and seperately mic'd 2 speaker cabinents from one Guitar head. I like the sound of the two cabs mixed but I am getting some bad phasey sounding stuff as well. Understanding that it is not truly representative of all possible phase issues, the wave graphics match with their peaks and valleys. Being reasonably new to DAWs and the like is there any plug-in or other technique I can use to get them more phase aligned, or should I just call it a day and throw one of them out?

[jmiller]

I haven't had a chance to use it "for real" yet, but if you're using VST or VSTtoRTAS adapted plugins, try PhaseBug. It's sorta like a plugin version of IBP, allowing continuously variable phase from 0 to 359 degrees. It seems to insert a fair bit of latency, so you'll need to compensate. When I played with it in ProTools, it inserted a 3074 sample delay at 44k. You'll have to play around until you find the null if you're at a different sampling rate. I did find it more effective than nudging regions around, which only seemed to move the phase problems somewhere else. It's a cool plugin, and there's a mono and stereo version (both installed by the same installer). Also, it's free. Lots of other cool plugins by this developer, too.

http://www.betabugsaudio.com/plugs.php

[lyman]

Lots of other cool plugins by this developer, too.

http://www.betabugsaudio.com/plugs.php

the best is the one called "Producer." You click on a button, leave the room, and while you're out getting a latte it sets up mics, helps the band with arrangements, manages out of control egos, and writes out the bill for the band.

[jmiller]

Lots of other cool plugins by this developer, too.
http://www.betabugsaudio.com/plugs.php

the best is the one called "Producer." You click on a button, leave the room, and while you're out getting a latte it sets up mics, helps the band with arrangements, manages out of control egos, and writes out the bill for the band.

That's more than I've ever seen a producer do. I suppose it's to hard to code a plugin that talks on his cellphone on the couch in the back all session. I'd prefer a "Runner" plugin.

[Roman Sokal]

i like the plug in that magically wipes out the entire session, harddrive, cpu etc.
for those times when the client and the session is so agonizing that you want to pretend that an act of god occured which leaves everything in ashes and is non reversible and presuades the band to give up entirely.
that's just the demo version. if you register it, it adds options such as blowing out the singer's vocal chords, and the ultimate option, making the band disappear into thin air forever. i'm currently developing the latest version of it, but the language code (in visual basic and c++) got wiped out in the process. its working much better than i thought!

[Mark Alan Miller]

Understanding that it is not truly representative of all possible phase issues, the wave graphics match with their peaks and valleys.

If that's so, I have to ask: are you zoomed in far enought to be sure this is really true? And if so, is the onset of each waveform (the initial transient, as it were) aligned? If the answer is yes, then you may have a time-arrival discrepancy between the two mics, where one mic is so much significantly 'slower' in its transient response that is essentially has a frequency-dependent time-arrival phase shift that effects the upper harmonics (and transients) - thus, you'll have to 'tune it' by ear... and it may never fully satisfy.
If the latter is true, then turn one mic or the other down until it's contributions outweigh it's drawbacks.

Just some thoughts.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

i like the plug in that magically wipes out the entire session, harddrive, cpu etc.
for those times when the client and the session is so agonizing that you want to pretend that an act of god occured which leaves everything in ashes and is non reversible and presuades the band to give up entirely.

There's a studio in town that used to have a console with a secret "kil" switch hidden underneith right about where the engineer would sit. If a session was going really badly you could press the kill switch, say that the console had gone down and send everyone home for the day.

[Fletcher]

I recently recorded a project where I split out and seperately mic'd 2 speaker cabinents from one Guitar head. I like the sound of the two cabs mixed but I am getting some bad phasey sounding stuff as well. Understanding that it is not truly representative of all possible phase issues, the wave graphics match with their peaks and valleys. Being reasonably new to DAWs and the like is there any plug-in or other technique I can use to get them more phase aligned, or should I just call it a day and throw one of them out?

Stop looking at the pictures and listen to the sound.

If it sounds good, it is good... if the "phasey" sounding stuff is getting in the way then you may need to either: 1) pick one of the two sounds and work from there; 2) filter out some aspects of the second sound so it works and plays well with the first; 3) effect the snot out of the second sound [phaser/flanger/delay/whatever] and blend it with the first to get a texture that will ocmpliment the song.

Just stop looking at the fucking bars on the TV screen and serve the music and you should be fine.

Best of luck with it.

[@?,*???&?]

Oh, the evil buggaboo of comb filtering...

Try this, insert a short delay on one of the tracks. Start at a setting like .03ms and begin nudging in .02ms intervals. 1 foot = 1ms, you should be able to solidify your recording quite easily this way. You obviously can't move the mic any further from the source, but you will be able to move one guitar cab further away from the other with regard to the sine waves each is presenting.

[Autodidact]

Wouldn't it be possible IF the guitar tracks are clean ( would assume not, so if so, disreguard this post) then re-amping one track and recording its amp again?

[Fletcher]

Start at a setting like .03ms and begin nudging in .02ms intervals.

I've never seen a delay that gets down to the 100th of a millisecond... is this a typo or is there really such an animal? If there is, where can I get one?

[TapeOpAndy]

At 44.1 kHz Fs, 1 sample = .00002676 sec = 0.02676 ms. I think Jeff is recommending that you vary your delay by 1 sample at a time (at 44.1 kHz). Plenty of delays (software and hardware) allow you to delay by 1 sample at a time.

[gbhansen666]

Thanks for all the good (and humorous) ideas. I'll have to try them out when I get a chance to work on it again....where do you get the producer plug-in again?

[A-Barr]

You don't need a fancy delay, just set your nudge amount to 1 sample or .3 ms or whatever and try nudging it around till it works. Recommend you copy the track to another and mute it so you can always go back to the original setup if you get all nudged out and can't get it back where you started.

[A-Barr]

FYI at room temperature, sound travels at the rate of about .3 inches per sample. Theorhetically, you could use that to compensate for mic spacing effects. I.e. moving the track up 39 samples should egual moving the mic a foot closer.