Creating Density in a Mix
Creating Density in a Mix
I'm specifically referring to individual tracks, and how to make them sound more dense, full, or thick within the mix. In the past I relied on (a lot) of reverb to do this, and I'm trying to think of new ways to do it.
Some ideas I've considered:
-Double, triple tracking parts when recording.
-Similar idea, done differently- offsetting the tracks in Logic, Pro Tools, etc. (Not sure if this would create phase problems if done too much).
- Bussing. I'm wondering if, I double or triple track a part, and then buss all of them to the same buss, with a very slight reverb or delay, it would help create an illusion of more being there than really is (ms. recommendations?)
Other ideas?
Some ideas I've considered:
-Double, triple tracking parts when recording.
-Similar idea, done differently- offsetting the tracks in Logic, Pro Tools, etc. (Not sure if this would create phase problems if done too much).
- Bussing. I'm wondering if, I double or triple track a part, and then buss all of them to the same buss, with a very slight reverb or delay, it would help create an illusion of more being there than really is (ms. recommendations?)
Other ideas?
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offsetting the tracks can work, but you do definitely need to pay close attention to the phase, cause you're gonna be fucking with it. so, say you have a guitar track panned hard left, you copy it and pan it hard right and then delay that track ~10ms. sounds awesome right? now listen to the mix in mono. your guitar is either gonna sound alright or really comb filtered and shitty. if its the latter then try nudging the copy track around a little bit at a time and try and find where its least offensive.
if you're double/triple tracking, i'd try changing guitars/amps/pedals/mics/something between takes so you don't end up with three or four tracks of the exact same sound. i find its a lot easier to mix stuff when there's some variety of tones.
you could also try some parallel compression and work that in underneath the regular tracks.
if you're double/triple tracking, i'd try changing guitars/amps/pedals/mics/something between takes so you don't end up with three or four tracks of the exact same sound. i find its a lot easier to mix stuff when there's some variety of tones.
you could also try some parallel compression and work that in underneath the regular tracks.
Thanks for the replies. An example would be the first track off of Radiohead's Kid A, where the keyboard (Nord?) just sounds huge. I was thinking more in terms of guitar, but keyboard could apply too. I've been trying tofigure out how they got that sound...it's sound double tracked to me and that they are tweaking the resonance throughout. I don't think it's a compression thing really, but I don't know.kayagum wrote:What are you doing for compression? Maybe you haven't told the whole story...
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it can also be a simple matter of just turning something up to ridiculous levels in a mix...like yunno a guitar playing simple chords through a fender champ can sound huge if you just crank it up in the mix.
so maybe rather than triple tracking everything, try just cranking one track of guitar or keys or whatever. i'm thinking of shellac records...everything sounds huge because there's really not much going on, therefore there's plenty of room to have the drums bass and guitar all sounding really big.
dunno if this is what you're looking for at all, i'm just sayin'....
so maybe rather than triple tracking everything, try just cranking one track of guitar or keys or whatever. i'm thinking of shellac records...everything sounds huge because there's really not much going on, therefore there's plenty of room to have the drums bass and guitar all sounding really big.
dunno if this is what you're looking for at all, i'm just sayin'....
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compression can help a lot.... subtle limiting with tape saturation or the plug in equivalant.
Sometimes a little non-linear ambient reverb can give life but I would agree that reverb doesn't necessarily add density.
I find a hall or a plate can sometimes wash out a track to the point that it isn't powerful or dense sounding at all
Double and triple tracking often makes for what sounds like a mess to me, especially with vocals...
there are of course, thousands of examples that prove the opposite...
just my experience there
as always it depends on what type of music you're working on
Sometimes a little non-linear ambient reverb can give life but I would agree that reverb doesn't necessarily add density.
I find a hall or a plate can sometimes wash out a track to the point that it isn't powerful or dense sounding at all
Double and triple tracking often makes for what sounds like a mess to me, especially with vocals...
there are of course, thousands of examples that prove the opposite...
just my experience there
as always it depends on what type of music you're working on
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I agree with a few statements already made.
Reverb often does not make tones bigger, but gives the illusion of a bigger space. Therefore it makes the tone seem smaller. Compare the sound of an amp filling a small space like a booth compared to filling a gymnasium.
Making sure the arrangement works will add a lot to the size of a recording. The drums can sound huge if there's not a lot going on in the other instruments, then later in the tune the focus can go to multiple guitar parts, later the vocal arrangement can take precedence. Have you heard the "Killer Queen" tracks that have been floating around? Someone posted separate sub-mixes of the rhythm, the vocals and the guitars. The arrangement is brilliant (as is the playing is Queen for god's sake). Check out how things you like are put together...
I love using different instrument, amps and guitars to give each thing its own sound and thus adding to the piece. Compression of various sorts and techniques can really make something sound in your face and big.
Do you have anything posted on the web that we can hear?
Reverb often does not make tones bigger, but gives the illusion of a bigger space. Therefore it makes the tone seem smaller. Compare the sound of an amp filling a small space like a booth compared to filling a gymnasium.
Making sure the arrangement works will add a lot to the size of a recording. The drums can sound huge if there's not a lot going on in the other instruments, then later in the tune the focus can go to multiple guitar parts, later the vocal arrangement can take precedence. Have you heard the "Killer Queen" tracks that have been floating around? Someone posted separate sub-mixes of the rhythm, the vocals and the guitars. The arrangement is brilliant (as is the playing is Queen for god's sake). Check out how things you like are put together...
I love using different instrument, amps and guitars to give each thing its own sound and thus adding to the piece. Compression of various sorts and techniques can really make something sound in your face and big.
Do you have anything posted on the web that we can hear?
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Hm, I guess the best synonym would be "thick." A sound that is extremely full...another example I thought of is the guitar sounds on Neil Young's On The Beach. As was mentioned, this could have a lot to do with minimal instrumentation, so there is just more room to push the sound way up front.Toolshed of Death wrote:what exactly do you mean by density? i use the word too but I have a feeling it's one of those things that the meaning varies with user..
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