Cymbals and high hat played to lightly? Strange I know.
- Ryan Silva
- tinnitus
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Cymbals and high hat played to lightly? Strange I know.
The setup
Tama Starclassic 5 piece.
OH - 414 b-uls in omni
Snare Top- KSM 141
Snare Bottom - KSM 141
Kick - EV RE-20
Tom 1, 2 - Sen MD421
Floor Tom - GT66 (tube mic)
Mixing Question
I have never had a drummer know how to behave on the cymbals so well. I was elated when I realized that I didn't have to dampen the crash or do the "Drummer Talk" about dynamics. I just wasn't concerned about cymbal level, and because of this I forgot how to record someone with control.
My trouble is every time I increase the OH volume I pick up more snare than I would like. I tried running a slow attack and slow release, but I just got to much damn snare decay.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Tama Starclassic 5 piece.
OH - 414 b-uls in omni
Snare Top- KSM 141
Snare Bottom - KSM 141
Kick - EV RE-20
Tom 1, 2 - Sen MD421
Floor Tom - GT66 (tube mic)
Mixing Question
I have never had a drummer know how to behave on the cymbals so well. I was elated when I realized that I didn't have to dampen the crash or do the "Drummer Talk" about dynamics. I just wasn't concerned about cymbal level, and because of this I forgot how to record someone with control.
My trouble is every time I increase the OH volume I pick up more snare than I would like. I tried running a slow attack and slow release, but I just got to much damn snare decay.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
"Writing good songs is hard. recording is easy. "
MoreSpaceEcho
MoreSpaceEcho
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- Marc Alan Goodman
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Space echo's got it. A slow attack and release should accentuate the snare (the compressor won't bring the level down until after the transient of the snare hit). By setting the attack and release pretty fast you should be able to control anything that happens suddenly while accentuating longer sounds like cymbals.
If it's a deeper sounding snare you could even put a sidechain with a lowpass on the compressor so that it only squashes down when the drums hit, not the cymbals.
Just watch out that you don't set them so fast that it sounds like the music is "pumping", or like the microphones are running back and forth towards the kit from across the room. Unless of course that's the effect you're looking for! It's definitely been used in a positive way before.
-marc goodman
If it's a deeper sounding snare you could even put a sidechain with a lowpass on the compressor so that it only squashes down when the drums hit, not the cymbals.
Just watch out that you don't set them so fast that it sounds like the music is "pumping", or like the microphones are running back and forth towards the kit from across the room. Unless of course that's the effect you're looking for! It's definitely been used in a positive way before.
-marc goodman
Duplicate (or mult) the tracks. Put an expander and severe hi and low pass filters on the duped / multed tracks so that it's like ALL SNARE all the time. flip the phase.
You'll think your brilliant for a few seconds, then you'll realize you just killed the mix. And then reach for a mutiband comp, which still kills the mix. Fuck it, just slam with a comp and be done.
You'll think your brilliant for a few seconds, then you'll realize you just killed the mix. And then reach for a mutiband comp, which still kills the mix. Fuck it, just slam with a comp and be done.
- jmoose
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Indeed. Faster release times are the way to go...set it so the little gremlin gets outta the way FAST, before the cymbals come back. If you wanna be super kool with it, use a compressors sidechain and feed it with an EQ boosting the snares most dominate frequencys so it drives the gremlin EVEN harder,MoreSpaceEcho wrote:use a FAST attack and release compressor on the overheads. set the threshold so it's only really grabbing the snare hits, which, if the guy played the way you say, should be way louder than everything else...
Carving up the the overheads is another option too...find where the snares dominant and resonent frequencies are...and rip 'em outta there. Try adding some 'air' to the very top of the overheads too, like 10kHz...or better 12-16kHz. Just enough to open it up. Shevling or high passing around/below 250-400Hz might be an option worth considering...sweep it around...see what comes out.
See what the phase relationship is like too.
Maybe 'yer tastes have changed since tracking or the flip side would be better in the current context.
- Ryan Silva
- tinnitus
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- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:46 pm
- Location: San Francisco
Thanks guys
Opps, did I say slow and slow on attack/release. Don't I feel sheepish, I meant fast and fast.
Did try to side-chain with broadband and low-band comps that gave me the best results. I was having trouble trying to just notch, and I think that was because I liked the bleed of the snare drum in the overheads.
Thanks for all the Help
Ryan
Opps, did I say slow and slow on attack/release. Don't I feel sheepish, I meant fast and fast.
Did try to side-chain with broadband and low-band comps that gave me the best results. I was having trouble trying to just notch, and I think that was because I liked the bleed of the snare drum in the overheads.
Thanks for all the Help
Ryan
"Writing good songs is hard. recording is easy. "
MoreSpaceEcho
MoreSpaceEcho
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I have a comp that does this kind of thing by itself. It's an LA Audio CX2. It has two different ways it's work too. I'd have to look it up again to explain it, but it has a half button that splits the frequencies its compressing somehow. With the button out it acts like a built in EQ side chain. It's really crazy what you can do with it sometimes. You don't even have to be in a situation needing de-essing or anything to use it to shape the sound of the compression. you can change the character really well with this and it's so cool. I've found it strange that no one ever talks about these units since they are so cool.If you wanna be super kool with it, use a compressors sidechain and feed it with an EQ boosting the snares most dominate frequencys so it drives the gremlin EVEN harder,
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