Live show recording with one million inputs

Labrat · Post by **Labrat** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:22 am

I've put together a live recording rig using all eighteen inputs on my 002 (eight analog ins, eight optical ins via RME converter, and spdf pair). The inputs are all dedicated to single preamps. I am splitting the stage snake, and using a pair of room mics. Having great luck so far, but I am now faced with a challenge. I am recording an "over the top" one off Okkervil River show which will feature, in addition to the regular set-up (which already taxes my input limit), an eight piece string section, four piece horn section, and a trio of backing vocal girls. Trying to figure out the most fail-safe approach, since I only get one chance, and it's really important that it's done right. One idea I have is to put stereo pairs in front of the strings and horns, and use that in lieu of individual control over each instrument. Maybe I can manage the bleed, because it's a big stage. The other is to bring in a mixer with some routing capabilities, take lines off every instrument, and commit to pre-mixing each section in pairs to disk. Or, I could rent a Pro Tools system that will allow me to split everything at the source and relax, knowing that everything will be fine. Ideas, anyone? This is for a DVD release. Did I mention that I've got to get this right?

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:28 am

Labrat wrote:Or, I could rent a Pro Tools system that will allow me to split everything at the source and relax, knowing that everything will be fine. Ideas, anyone? This is for a DVD release. Did I mention that I've got to get this right?

this is a big job. and, obviously an important one. so, I'd rent the big rig and relax.

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:05 pm

do both... I wouldn't want to be caught dead in the middle of a show like that with no backup.... track to a rented HD rig, but also submix some stereo stems (as you described) to your LE rig... there might be one important section of an important song where the HD rig shits the bed, and thankfully, you saved the day because you brought your humble LE rig and can mix from the stems... not ideal, but at least you wouldn't ruin the whole session.

or rent a Radar or Alesis HD24 or something so you don't have to worry about a home computer fucking up... maybe run the LE as a backup to something SUPER stable like one of those.

I dunno. regardless, my point is that I wouldn't want to be caught without a redundant system for a one off gig.

John

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:21 pm

toaster3000 wrote:where the HD rig shits the bed.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! All soundguys use this? I thought I was the only one. Rawwk on!!

or rent a Radar or Alesis HD24 or something so you don't have to worry about a home computer fucking up... maybe run the LE as a backup to something

SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable SUPER stable

like one of those.

John

Forget PT live, rent a D5 and record to disk, or rent a Midas or what have you and use an hd 24.

stevedood · Post by **stevedood** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:32 pm

my recommendation would be to rent a Radar since they are well proven in applications such as these. Either that or check out a Venue if you don't already have a desk picked out.
Do you have to mix the show too or just record it?

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:16 pm

stevedood wrote:my recommendation would be to rent a Radar since they are well proven in applications such as these. Either that or check out a Venue if you don't already have a desk picked out.
Do you have to mix the show too or just record it?

Good point, if you don't have to mix, save yerself sum bux and don't rent a board. just a snake and a machine.

Labrat · Post by **Labrat** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:29 pm

I normally do front of house for these guys, but for this show I'm just recording. I think I will check into the availability of some kind of dedicated hard disk recorder. Is Radar pretty easy to use? Never even seen one before. Is it an easy matter to dump the files into Pro Tools?

dirk_v · Post by **dirk_v** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:19 am

From what I've read, RADAR records BWAV files, so you can dump your tracks straight into PT to mix. Operates pretty much like a tape machine, and people who swear by it all profess their undying love for the way it sounds as well. I'd say go for it.

-dv

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:21 am

Labrat wrote:I normally do front of house for these guys, but for this show I'm just recording. I think I will check into the availability of some kind of dedicated hard disk recorder. Is Radar pretty easy to use? Never even seen one before. Is it an easy matter to dump the files into Pro Tools?

I don't know where you are but the RADAR unit isn't widespread yet to rent one "in town". You might opt for an HD 24. They record AIFF and WAV and have "few" if any probs. If you have enough lead time you can rent a RADAR start checking now, they record at a higher resolution than the HD24.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:32 am

Labrat wrote:Is Radar pretty easy to use?

If you've ever used anything with transport controls (like a Radio Shack cassette recorder), then RADAR is crazy easy to use. Just get whoever you're renting it from to show you how to set up projects and you'll be totally good to go. Or just ask here. There are a few of us die-hard RADAR users around.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Barry Jive · Post by **Barry Jive** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:52 pm

I just want to say I really love Okkervil River. This sounds like a great night, I assume in Austin. Good luck, I wish I could go!

-Eric

Professor · Post by **Professor** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:11 am

Yeah, I'd rent the stand-alone unit unless the plan is to edit & mix in a studio with PT-HD, in which case, renting an HD rig would kinda make sense.

Oh, and since this is meant to mate with a DVD, does it even need mentioning that you should be running at 48kHz and running time code if possible? If the cameras are being switched live, then you could either slave to the master video deck's timecode, or send your timecode to them. If they are grabbing everything at the individual cameras and hoping to cut it later (which is my guess since they figured on having you track the session on your existing rig) then the best thing would be to send a 2-channel audio feed to each camera with a mono mix on one side and a SMPTE stripe on the other. It won't guarantee that putting it all together later will be easy, but it's better than not knowing where the edits are and trying to match up movements later.
I can't remember if the HD-24 has timecode features, so that might put that rig out of the running. But even a stack of Tascam DA-78HRs would allow you to track at 24/48k with TC, and those should still be pretty readily available from most rental houses.

-Jeremy

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:53 am

You know, none of us have asked ABOUT THE BUDGET.

What is the budget?
What rig can you afford to rent and still eat and pay assistant and bank?
Have they asked you to supply any particular type of rig?

In our biz, that determines the rig especially if you're considering renting ANY rig.

HD24 Timecode?
Prof is correct. I don't think it does unless you are running with the old BRC.
Yeah, iut is a bummer to match up without code, but, it can be done easily enough with an assistant, Running audio to the camera is second banana but you can visually match them up if you have good enough docs.
The camera guy will try to switch on heavy camera compression. Say NO.

Labrat · Post by **Labrat** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:59 pm

Thanks, all. There's a place here that will rent an HR24 for $75/week, so that's what I'm going to do. The budget is blown. Might be able to scrape together a BRC from a friend.

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Live show recording with one million inputs

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