Worldwide music sales down again

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Johnny B
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Post by Johnny B » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:46 am

Interesting, all of this. Well, most of it, anyway.

I look at it this way: According to my records, I spent around $2000 last year buying music. The vast majority of that is used vinyl and new indie albums on CD. Almost none of it is new major label product. I bought more new CDs on independent reggae reissue labels than on major labels last year. Almost none of it was purchased at a chain store. Very little of it was purchased from a SoundScan store.

Most of the major label stuff I bought last year were used LPs from the 1970s and 80s. Most of the new or recent releases I bought were on labels like Touch & Go, Hydra Head, Dischord, Jamdown, JDub, 18th St. Lounge... Or self-released by the bands.

I know that in the view of some, the industry is all-important and therefore the new Britney Spears album is more "legitimate" than the new Wire EP, since they own and market their own catalog now.

But the truth is this: in the so-called "golden age" of recorded popular music, much (or most) of the best of the best was released by independent labels that were later purchased by bigger labels. The state of music in the 1990s where five large companies released most of the new music that anyone heard is not the natural order of things and doesn't grant legitimacy to anything other than a business model.

Those five labels became that big through buying and merging with other labels. The majority of their back catalogs were originally released by smaller labels that they purchased.

So, really, the Doors back-catalog is not "legitimate" because when it was released, Elektra was an independent label, not part of the Warner Bros. conglomerate. Anything on Stax or Motown was not "legitimate" either.

The big four built their business model on copying each other and marketing the lowest common denominator to teenagers. People interested in music picked up the slack and started independent labels to release music they thought should be heard. Teenagers now have other things (like video games) competing for their dollars and music fans have moved on from the slim pickings offered by the majors.

My local record store does pretty well selling non-"legitimate" and non-"competitive" music releases. The manager doesn't look at what he sells as "product." He's a music freak who has given up the opportunity to work at a decent paying job with health insurance because he thinks what he does is important and he enjoys it. Even if it's not a "legitimate" way to make a living.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:57 am

Johnny B wrote:The vast majority of that is used vinyl and new indie albums on CD.
How many of those CDs were 'burned' without a barcode or professionally packaged?

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Post by RefD » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:51 am

@?,*???&? wrote:
Johnny B wrote:The vast majority of that is used vinyl and new indie albums on CD.
How many of those CDs were 'burned' without a barcode or professionally packaged?
it doesn't matter, but i'll play along anyway.

in my case, the answer is over 90% were burned CDRs from unsigned artists inside mostly very nice looking handmade packaging often with plenty of artwork and liner notes.

the rest was vinyl or small label releases of either stamped CDs or burned CDRs and were also attractively packaged (and had barcodes).

wait, no i bought ONE new-in-the-shrinkwrap CD from a major label artist last year...i later sold it cos it had only 3 decent tunes on it.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

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lapsteel
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Post by lapsteel » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:16 pm

I've been purchasing used and new vinyl. Since the indie labels offer vinyl and the mp3 downloads.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:30 am

@?,*???&? wrote:
Johnny B wrote:The vast majority of that is used vinyl and new indie albums on CD.
How many of those CDs were 'burned' without a barcode or professionally packaged?
jeff, this may come as a huge news flash to you, but there are in fact LOTS of real, LEGITIMATE indie labels out there. many of them have long histories in the biz. read some of the posts in this thread for some names. all these labels are putting out real cds and vinyl. just because you don't seem to ever listen to any good music doesn't mean there's not lots of it out there.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:37 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
@?,*???&? wrote:
Johnny B wrote:The vast majority of that is used vinyl and new indie albums on CD.
How many of those CDs were 'burned' without a barcode or professionally packaged?
jeff, this may come as a huge news flash to you, but there are in fact LOTS of real, LEGITIMATE indie labels out there. many of them have long histories in the biz. read some of the posts in this thread for some names. all these labels are putting out real cds and vinyl. just because you don't seem to ever listen to any good music doesn't mean there's not lots of it out there.
My question is pretty simple here- how many discs does this guy buy that are not burned and have no artwork with barcode.

The answer, it appears, is '0'. Which answers my question and reinforces the 'legitimate' aspect.

What you present here is 'noise'. I tune it out.

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Post by chris harris » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:58 am

@?,*???&? wrote:How many of those CDs were 'burned' without a barcode or professionally packaged?
@?,*???&? wrote:My question is pretty simple here- how many discs does this guy buy that are not burned and have no artwork with barcode.
apparently, your question is not even simple enough for you to remember what it actually IS. Maybe if you'd just MAKE YOUR POINT, I'd be able to understand what you're getting at.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:43 am

yeah jeff is making even less sense than usual.

but, taking a huge leap and trying to venture into his mindset for a moment, it seems that he believes that the record store mentioned by johnny b is stocking primarily home made cds burned "by some kid in his basement", in lieu of regular 'professional' cds.

do i have this right jeff?

now, i ask you, gentle tapeop messageboarders....how many of you have ever been in record stores where the 'homemade' cds outnumbered the 'real' cds?

i have never been in a record store like this.

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Post by RefD » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:30 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:yeah jeff is making even less sense than usual.

but, taking a huge leap and trying to venture into his mindset for a moment, it seems that he believes that the record store mentioned by johnny b is stocking primarily home made cds burned "by some kid in his basement", in lieu of regular 'professional' cds.

do i have this right jeff?

now, i ask you, gentle tapeop messageboarders....how many of you have ever been in record stores where the 'homemade' cds outnumbered the 'real' cds?

i have never been in a record store like this.
me neither.
@?,*???&? wrote:What you present here is 'noise'. I tune it out.
this is apparently self referential.

i would tune out JR if only he wasn't so damned loud and persistent...it's like he's the ampguy of public debate! :lol:
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

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Post by T-rex » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:39 pm

I will say that in the past I never considered a CDR to be a "legitimate" release. For my bands I have always either gone through a small label or we paid ourselves for duplication. However, I would totally buy a CDR from a band if I saw them live and was knocked out by them. I wouldn't care at all. Really what's the difference from local bands doing that and local bands going to cassette duplicators back in the day and doing their own artwork? I would totally download MP3's from a band that I liked; if that was the only way I could get the music.

I mean are you saying the "music business" has to be worried about CDR's with no art work? Well you can go a head and write its obituary because it's fkn dead.

It's a brave new world, millions of people downloading completely illegitimate releases from I-tunes for instance. I mean think about it, no artwork, no UPC, not even cdr quality? Wow, maybe the record industry should be worried about "illegitimate" releases. . .:shock: :shock:
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Post by fossiltooth » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:48 pm

RefD wrote:
i would tune out JR if only he wasn't so damned loud and persistent...it's like he's the ampguy of public debate! :lol:
Classic!

Can that be my sig?

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Post by @?,*???&? » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:55 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:yeah jeff is making even less sense than usual.

but, taking a huge leap and trying to venture into his mindset for a moment, it seems that he believes that the record store mentioned by johnny b is stocking primarily home made cds burned "by some kid in his basement", in lieu of regular 'professional' cds.

do i have this right jeff?

now, i ask you, gentle tapeop messageboarders....how many of you have ever been in record stores where the 'homemade' cds outnumbered the 'real' cds?

i have never been in a record store like this.
You need to re-read this thread. Actually, start with my very first post in this.

RefD
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Post by RefD » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:01 pm

fossiltooth wrote:
RefD wrote:
i would tune out JR if only he wasn't so damned loud and persistent...it's like he's the ampguy of public debate! :lol:
Classic!

Can that be my sig?
all my statements here are public domain.

so, as the old saw goes, distribute freely and with gusto.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

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Re: Worldwide music sales down again

Post by JGriffin » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:32 pm

Okay:
@?,*???&? wrote: less and less people are releasing 'legitimate, mastered and pressed' releases.


Have you got any data to support this statement?
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Re: Worldwide music sales down again

Post by RefD » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:38 pm

dwlb wrote:Okay:
@?,*???&? wrote: less and less people are releasing 'legitimate, mastered and pressed' releases.


Have you got any data to support this statement?
isn't his assertion enough?

what's the matter with you, man?!?
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

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