Harsh Instruments and Kids Toys?

[neaimepas]

Me and a friend generaly record our own music, since combined we share a fair amount of knowledge on recording and what not.
We often use some odd instruments on certain songs, such as kids toys (mini bell kits, toyboxes, mini keyboards, etc.) and most difficultly a p.o.s. drum set that sounds terribly lovely live.
I have done fair miking jobs on regular drumsets before, but there is no amount of mic placement, compression or mic selection that I can use to make the recorded sound, replicate a live one. I dont really have a grand selection of mics to choose from but I do have some common (and similar to common ones) but does anyone know of any good way to capture "bad sounds".
(Sorry if this post is a bit general but I am in somewhat of a rush).

[RefD]

speaking generally, i use dynamic mics between 2 inches to 2 feet away.

thing is, we really need more specifics before we can offer much useful in the way of suggestions!

[neaimepas]

Indeed, sorry about that, I just needed to get a question up before I forgot!
The biggest issue that I am having is with a particular drum set. It started off as a cheap Sound Percussion rehearsal set. Eventualy we ended up beating the trash out of it at a show with some metal rods that dented up the heads and gave them this lovely rough, gobbliedigook (Sigur Ros) type sound.
However, there is a kick we play with mallots that whenever recorded you hear more hardware (we think that it is the rim raddling) then kick, although we can't seem to hear the hardware live.
And the toms always end up as a gentle thud, with none of the high end being replicated as it is live.
As well as a floor tom, that we put a spare string of snares on and put another head laying over top of, it sounds like it is being recorded in a blanket or something, no matter how we try.
I have tried all sorts of micing techniques and EQing, but I cant seem to get a decent replication.
Can terrible drums just not be recorded. Perhaps I need more compression? Better room?

[T-rex]

Sounds like a great challenge! I mean there is a million different ways/things etc. Read the board long enough and you should find plenty of good tips.

Are you recording the drums individually or as a set? Also, are you recording in a small room where as you normally play live in a big room? That second question probably has more of an effect on what you are doing. You are saying that you don't hear the ring and metal sounds live but when you mic you do, I am guessing you are probably close micing?

Anyway, if the drums sound good (maybe not good, but bad in a good way) in the room. I would suggest starting really simple. Read up on the Glyn Johns 3 mic technique. Those three mics should give you a really good image of the drums as a kit. You aren't going for a modern rock sound so this should help get a natural sounding drum kit to tape.

Also, I find it takes a room mic mixed in to the closer mics to really bring out the full sound of the drums - like the boom when you really hit a floor tom. The closer mics and the overheads will pick up the attack, but the room mic really picks up the low end sound of the tom as it opens up into the room. When combined with the close mic or overheads then you start to get the whole picture.

I know I was kind of rambling, hopefully that helps some?

[drumsound]

an omni mic or two might help.

On the BD rattle, take the head off and tighten the lugs just a bit. If they are really bad you might need to take them off and pack the lug with cotton.

[neaimepas]

On the BD rattle, take the head off and tighten the lugs just a bit. If they are really bad you might need to take them off and pack the lug with cotton.

This did wonders,

[joy1932]

Regardless of whether your child likes to stick out on the guitar, beat the drums, or shake out on the piano, these melodic instruments for children of any age will set them up to become the dominant focal point.

[vvv]

A nonsensical first-post response to an 11 year-old thread, what am I missing here?

[Snarl 12/8]

A nonsensical first-post response to an 11 year-old thread, what am I missing here?

The joys of the interwebs?

[Drone]

Damn, it looked like a good thread, I was gonna go with less is more use 3 mics on the drumkit, no close mic, capture the spaces.

[Snarl 12/8]

Damn, it looked like a good thread, I was gonna go with less is more use 3 mics on the drumkit, no close mic, capture the spaces.

Ha! I was going to say the opposite. TOMB is dead! Long live the TOMB!

[kiara93]

Hey neaimepas,

Thanks for sharing this information with us. This current child's toys instruments are extremely useful for kids to learn music and they can get more enthusiasm for music from youth and it will help in their future on the off chance that they need to make their profession in music.

[Gregg Juke]

Wow. Curiouser and curiouser. Non-sequitor first posts to 11-year old threads make me think of North Korean cyber-attacks. Or, maybe even......
Wait for it...... Wait for it... RUSSIANS.

But seriously folks, what the heck?

But seriously folks again-- I actually didn't realize at first that it was a zombie-thread (thanks Tony), and I was going to say something like: "Sources Matter. Tune the drums after you put on new heads." So that is my official response for posterity, if anyone needs to know.

GJ

[vvv]

"Tony"?

[joninc]

i heard that Jon Brion had a saying:

"Nice instrument - crappy mics.
Crappy instrument - nice mics"

as in - contrast the source with the capture... don't use shitty mics on a shitty source or its double crap and vice versa.

So, if you are still wondering this many years later what to use - use your best mics you have and capture the sound from a bit of a distance
if you want a "realistic" sound.

Record each element separately if you require more control or use close mics to enhance their presence in the blend(check phase!!).