Snare bottom micing

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:07 pm

*gong*

CompEq · Post by **CompEq** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:09 pm

*gong*

Yeah, I deserved that.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:12 pm

i think you're right about the frequencies though.

CompEq · Post by **CompEq** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:16 pm

I was not kidding about that. It would put a real swerve on things if what I quoted from Tony were true, though (at least at audible frequencies).

From Wikipedia:

In a non-dispersive medium sound speed is independent of sound frequency, so the speeds of energy transport and sound propagation are the same. For audible sounds air is a non-dispersive medium. But air does contain a small amount of CO2 which is a dispersive medium, and it introduces dispersion to air at ultrasonic frequencies (> 28 kHz).

So, yeah I guess there could be a difference in a room filled with sand but I've never tried to monitor in one of those.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:45 pm

But air does contain a small amount of CO2 which is a dispersive medium, and it introduces dispersion to air at ultrasonic frequencies (> 28 kHz).

*puts 2 dozen plants in the tracking room...asks dog if he hears a difference*

CompEq · Post by **CompEq** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:48 pm

Dude, I'm laughing so hard my eyes are tearing up!

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:49 pm

just doing my job here.

CompEq · Post by **CompEq** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:51 pm

I'm bringing my buddy's Lab on the next session just so I can lean over and ask him if he hears a difference!

As long as he doesn't answer me with "Kill, kill, kill", I should be okay.

grumpysoundguy · Post by **grumpysoundguy** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:54 am

losthighway wrote:
ott0bot wrote:...but the drummer wants to acheive this classic Motown drum hit with a big reverb. And I'm just not sure that will work on the full kit take because there is too much bleed and his other playing is too busy to give that same feeling.
Classic. The drummer wants to sound motown and the only honest response to him is "Well, start by playing that way." Maybe if they called you 'producer' you could offer that help, I don't know.

trying to figure out if we are saying the drummer is asking to make an apple taste like an orange OR if we are telling the tech that he should engineer more and produce less........

themagicmanmdt · Post by **themagicmanmdt** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:56 pm

hey, wow, chris and joel -

you definitely took a 'front of the kit' perspective. i haven't done that yet - usually I'm a 'drummer' perspective, and I get this great 'snap' with it. it's a different feel.

for example, a 'typical' setup might be:

OH's - positive
under snare - reversed
kick - reversed (sometimes left positive depending on bleed/sound)
top toms - positive
under toms - reversed

it's a 'batter head' sound to my ears.

also -

for the under snare micers and all this phase -

remember your ribbons! have you tried your ribbons under the snare with a pop filter? i dig either my beyer m260 for hi-fi snare or my modded nady rsm-5 (mid-fi) turned upside down. the kick sits in the null, and you get a bit of rack tom if you want it, too!

talk about a meaty, non biting tone, naturally!

akg414 · Post by **akg414** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:22 pm

joel hamilton wrote:
cgarges wrote: Phase is everything when you're recording a drumkit.

+1

If you're using a DAW, you can also look at the wave forms and see if they are out of phase. Two out-of-phase singals will be opposite in appearance. I.E. - one wave dips and the other peaks. Lots of threads on this as well on the site. Helped me quite a bit

Oh, and has anyone mentioned phase yet?

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:47 pm

just keep in mind that on the DAW sometimes stuff that looks wrong sounds right.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:13 am

bradjacob wrote:If you're using a DAW, you can also look at the wave forms and see if they are out of phase. Two out-of-phase singals will be opposite in appearance. I.E. - one wave dips and the other peaks.

Yeah, but just like I was saying before, this doesn't mean that the entire kit is in-phase with itself. Sometimes, you need some negative peaks in order for things to add up correctly. There's no completely 100% repeatable logic to it, either. You just have to listen.

I set up a kit yesterday and wound up in one of those weird situations where everything is in positive polarity. That's what sounds the fullest and most life-like to me. Now, I'm sure if I were to look at the waveforms, that I'd see some negative stuff going on, since I have a mic above a rack tom and a mic above the snare drum and everything else is getting positive motion towards the mic (I'm using a front-of-kit mono overhead). But if I start flipping polarity on stuff something on the kit gets thin-sounding. Prime example.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

roscoenyc · Post by **roscoenyc** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:59 am

good mic on top, cheap mic on bottom or the other way:)

akg414 · Post by **akg414** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:32 am

If you can - make one of those mics a 441. That's one magic snare mic. Typically used on the bottom, I choose to use mine for the top.

Viva Sennheiser 441

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Snare bottom micing

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