Fast, clean, high gain, is what i want.

[lotusstudio]

Well, the only one I've used out of all these under discussion is the Grace. I can't comment on any of the others - But I have an older model Grace 101 with high gain for ribbon.

The Grace is wonderful when you want a transparent sound. I think very accurate, detailed, uncolored, honest and QUIET - even at high gain levels it is very quiet and the price right.

I do not like it much for Ribbon because it is so clean and I like a little more mojo.

But when you want to capture exactly what's coming through your chain prefectly - the Grace excels. It's like clear water.

[Ryan Silva]

hmmm -- a lot of what qualifies as "fast" and "clean" would be transformerless stuff - which can also sometimes be described as "sterile".

a lot of "color" pres can be run more conservatively and be considerably less coloured but still have some heft and meatiness to them....

great river nv
api
even the germanium with the feedback knob off...
sebatron
isa

are you going for pristine and clear?

are you an audiophile?

what kind of records do you love and make? rock? classical?

are you recording to digital? for me in digital land - i find the fast clean stuff can also come off "hard" and to my ears - i did some recording to radar a few years back with millenia pres and found it too biting on some sources (esp electric guitar). might be fine fine on the rooms but a little harsh on overheads and brighter sources. if i was on tape maybe i'd want to go in more clean as the tape will color depending on how you hit it etc... also depends on if you are using bright mics or darker stuff/ribbons etc.

it might be perfect with ribbons - might be shrill with brighter condensors.

there's a lot of variable but since you haven't tried any of these - it's hard to say whether you will actually like them or not.

more description please....

Well I have to say, I never considered the possibility of a pre being too sterile; maybe because I haven?t worked with these types of units. Most of my pres were bought with ?Mojo? in mind: Trident s20, UAm610 (color city), Toft (there like a low gain Trident).

What I think of when I want clean and transparent is Sufjan Stevens, but to the extent I would use that very up front clinical sound, maybe not as often as when I?m looking for softer pillowy tones, but I want that option if you know what I mean.

Are you going for pristine and clear? Yes

Are you an audiophile? No, my doctor gave me some medicine, now I?m all better.
What kind of records do you love and make?Rock? Classical? Indie-rock, rock, Americana, some Foley and VO work.

I record/mix with Nuendo out to a Toft ATB.

Man I was really looking into some of that Millennia stuff, after a screaming recommendation from John Vanderslice a few years ago, but he also uses Neve to 2?.

I was thinking that my Chameleon Labs TS-1?s might sound great on OH through a transformer less signal chain, but I?m just guessing really. Why is it so hard to demo this type of gear.

[drumsound]

Totally shameless. When you've got the right answer, don't be shy.

You should see my sharkskin suit

The Caddilac of suits!

Ryan,
If you can find a used Great Rive MP2 you'd be golden. A much under appreciated/known, hand wired class A wonder. It got way to expensive for Dan to produce them. They pop up every now and again. There was a 2 channel and a 4 channel(MP4).

[Ryan Silva]

Thanks Tony I'll start hunting around for that.

Any opinions on Daking? There is a (demo) 4 channel Daking pre for $1975 on Sweetwater today. I have heard nothing about them.

Thanks

[joninc]

there's a smoking review of the Daking in the new tape op.

sufjan to my ears is clear but it's all in the softness of the tones - whispery singing. gently plucked guitars, woodwinds, strings etc... and according to the tape op article he records with 57s and c1000s. go figure?

[Recycled_Brains]

Would the John Hardy M1/2/twin servo preamps fall into this category?

[joninc]

i have found this graph to be helpful in a general way:
http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/micpregraph.htm

[cgarges]

I would put the Hardy into that category. To me, there's something a little less exciting about the Hardy than the Millenia and the Buzz Audio stuff, but it's certainly fast and clean-sounding. Maybe a little bit noisier at the top of the gain range.

I haven't heard the newest version of the Daking stuff, but if it's anything like the original Daking units (the 52270s), it's not what I would call fast or "accurate." It's very similar to the older Trident stuff-- kind of soft and "pillowy" with a nice, clear top end. Think mid-70s Pink Floyd drum sounds (not that that's' what was used, but that kind of sound). It's definitely a cool sound, not anywhere near as forward as the API stuff, not as mushy in the bottom end as the Neve stuff, but even farther removed from anything else mentioned in this thread so far.

The Great River preamp that Tony mentioned is VERY similar in sound quality and behavior as the Sytek and from what I understand, very different from anything else they're making nowadays. I got to use one of those a few years ago at a studio in Indiana and would up using them pretty much interchangeably with my Syteks.

For whatever it's worth, I've only used the Chameleon TS-1 on one session at Mitch Easter's place (through his Neve VR), but it sounded stellar on electric guitar and Leslie cabinet. I did have a pair of TS-2s to check out for a while and liked them a lot, but I think they tended to sound better with some sort of iron in the signal path and I found myself using them with Neves and APIs more than my Syteks and Elixirs.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Ryan Silva]

there?s a smoking review of the Daking in the new tape op.

Sufjan to my ears is clear but it's all in the softness of the tones - whispery singing. Gently plucked guitars, woodwinds, strings etc... and according to the tape op article he records with 57s and c1000s. go figure?

As much as I attend the TOMB, my Tape Op issues stopped coming 2 years ago, and no matter how much I try, they will not send them to me. I was pretty disappointed that the powers that be seemed indifferent to my subscription problems. I have no problem paying double of what they want; it just doesn?t seem to be in the cards. I must have offended Larry

The worst part is that I lived no more than two miles from the distro center in Sacramento at the time, and still couldn?t work it out.

Anyone selling back issues?

[llmonty]

We used the Hardy's on piano on a record we are just finishing up and they came out great. Millennia's on guitars -- i did like them, but kind of meh. Different sources and recording processes, but I preferred the sound of the hardy's. super clean and fast on some intricate clean/dynamic piano stuff.

For overdubs for the stuff you mentioned, the combination of a hamptone Jfet and Blue dragonfly or Alice(s) was just AWESOME. The jeft can get really dirty, but in the 6:00-9:00 positions I found it really clean with plenty of gain. and FAST. and really really huge sounding. got great shaker, tambo, bells, bowls guiro, bottle. Have also recorded acoustic guitar with it and it was the best ever. I think it would be just what you might want, and is versatile enough to use where you want more color in other applications (like vocals).

For cleaner side but less huge sounding and maybe somewhat brighter (and maybe more 'airy'), I really like the neotek series stuff -- i have 4 racked Series 1Es. they work great and have cool eq options which is nice too.

[*cisko*]

I would recomend a pair of Sage se1 preamps, serieously awesome pres.