New Studio Build... a couple of quick questions.

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shakestheclown
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New Studio Build... a couple of quick questions.

Post by shakestheclown » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:49 pm

I'm about to move into a 20x45 ft space with 10 ft. ceilings.

The existing ceiling is just a regular office style drop ceiling. Since this will be a commercial facility and we need all the isolation we can get so I will probably make this go away.

I'm thinking about going with inside out construction but for the life of me I can't figure out how to build the ceiling.

I'm working on a few specific designs right now. A single room studio with a couple of smallish booths (I have a space like this right now but much smaller... 25x16x12), and a couple of control/tracking combinations.

I guess my real questions are, how would I build the ceiling, and since I'm a big fan of roomy drum sounds, should I go with the one room design or build a control room?

I would really like to have a separate listening environment for getting sounds. All this "place mics, record, listen, adjust." business is starting to get tiresome.

Rod Gervais
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Post by Rod Gervais » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:23 pm

Can you post some pics of the space - along with a floor plan?

Also, is the 10' ceiling to the underside of the structure above - or the underside of the existing acoustic ceiling?

Are you on the ground floor level or on a floor above?

The ceiling part of room within room construction is not that difficult - you build bearing walls - and the ceiling sits on those the same as it would if the whole thing was outside and they were rafters instead of ceiling joists..

Rod Gervais
GIK Acoustics
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http://www.gikacoustics.com (USA)
http://www.gikacoustics.co.uk (Europe)
Tel.(US)1.888.986.2789
Tel.(UK)+44(0)20.7558.8976

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roscoenyc
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Post by roscoenyc » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:54 pm

Rod is a tasteful guy and he's not gonna tell you to buy his book but I'll tell you.
Buy his book!
I pretty much double dare you to buy this book and not find a bunch of ultra helpful info in it.

Really, either get the book now or make a lot of expensive mistakes and then get the book and spend even more dough fixing the mistakes:)

Rod's book will help you discuss this topic and help you deal with any contractors or helpers you might use also.

Can you tell I'm a big fan of Rod's book?

http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-St ... 1598630342

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shakestheclown
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Post by shakestheclown » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:38 pm

I know I'm a fool for not already owning Rod's book. I've already built one space and made plenty of mistakes. I'll try to score a copy this week.

This is a single story strip mall/office space. Concrete foundation, two outside glass walls face the streets. I'm planning on just building walls to cover them up. Probably double layers of 5/8 sheet rock with the ceiling being the same. I'm planning on a 1ft airspace between the existing construction and the new construction. Is this too much?

I don't have any pics of the space just yet. I'm pretty sure that above the drop ceiling there is insulation and iron ceiling joists holding up a tin roof.

I'm told that the air conditioner is located on the roof so, maybe that means that the roof is more solid than just tin but I haven't been up there. I'm a little worried about hearing rain pound the roof during a storm.

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roscoenyc
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Post by roscoenyc » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:11 am

Looks like there is a new edition of Rod's book!

http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-St ... b_title_bk

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fossiltooth
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Post by fossiltooth » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:10 am

I have Rod's book too. It's definitely one of the best.

It was always neck-in-neck with Jeff Cooper's book "Building a Recording Studio: The Complete Guide to Studio Design and Construction" to me. A quick Google search leads me to believe that one is now out of print, which would mean the Gervais book is really the best thing going!

If you can get your hands on either one, you'll never be wanting for a truly practical reference guide as you hit this phase of development. Still, real people are a huge help. See if you can get Rod or someone like him to consult or build with you. It can save you lots of time and money in the long run.

Rod Gervais
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Post by Rod Gervais » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:47 pm

shakestheclown wrote:
This is a single story strip mall/office space. Concrete foundation, two outside glass walls face the streets. I'm planning on just building walls to cover them up. Probably double layers of 5/8 sheet rock with the ceiling being the same. I'm planning on a 1ft airspace between the existing construction and the new construction. Is this too much?
Not a way in the world I could answer that question....... would need a lot more data than that before anyone could.

What is the frame?
Aluminum?
Steel?
Wood?

Is the frame insulated or not?

What is the glass?
Insulated or Solid?
In either case what is the glass thickness?

Is the glass installation done from the inside or outside? (It would be a royal PITA to have to rip your studio apart to replace glass if some kid threw a brick through the window.)

What are the noise levels in the street?

What are they inside of the building?
I don't have any pics of the space just yet. I'm pretty sure that above the drop ceiling there is insulation and iron ceiling joists holding up a tin roof.
We really would have to know more than that - the owner of the property should have the exact information on the roof construction.
I'm told that the air conditioner is located on the roof so, maybe that means that the roof is more solid than just tin but I haven't been up there. I'm a little worried about hearing rain pound the roof during a storm.
Very doubtful, my best first guess would be that the roof is corrugated steel over structural members - wherever there are HVAC units there would be supplemental structural steel supporting them....... the roof itself is probably made up of rigid foam insulation with some type of membrane roofing over that.

We really do need a lot more information if you want us to have even a remote chance of helping you here.

Rod Gervais
GIK Acoustics
Director of Education
http://www.gikacoustics.com (USA)
http://www.gikacoustics.co.uk (Europe)
Tel.(US)1.888.986.2789
Tel.(UK)+44(0)20.7558.8976

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shakestheclown
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Post by shakestheclown » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:18 pm

Ok, I took some pics today...

http://bluesmokestudios.net/BSS/

It's probably tough to gauge what I'm working with here but hopefully this gives you a better idea of what I'm working with.

The glass framing is aluminum and I don't think it's insulated. Thickness appears to be 1/2?

How would I tell how the glass is installed? Or if its's insulated?

I'll check out the noise tomorrow.

I looked above the drop ceiling, it's just insulation and I'm guessing 18' iron joists, I'll call the property owner tomorrow and find out, I guess he would know about the glass as well?


This is what I'm thinking about as far as a floorplan goes. I know that this can be improved/modified.




Edit: I thought I would add that the opposite wall, running the length of the space(45') is just a standard sheetrock wall. As I understand it, I should remove the inner layer of sheetrock and add more insulation?

Should I use the rock that I remove to add mass to the existing wall inside the joists? I've heard that this is helpful as long as the seams are caulked.



Image

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shakestheclown
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Post by shakestheclown » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:52 pm

This is going on hold for a week or so, there's a vacation in my way.

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shakestheclown
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Post by shakestheclown » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:09 am

The window frame is aluminum, I'm not sure now to tell if it's insulated but when I knock on it it doesn't sound completely hollow. It doesn't look to be completely air tight either although it doesn't seem to leak when it rains.

Glass is either 3/8 or 1/2 in. and can be installed from either side.


Outside average SPL measures around 70dB maybe 75dB but I think there are some significant peaks caused by wind noise.

Inside average A weighted SPL is around 43dB. The AC pushes it up to 53dB.

I took these measurements with SPL Graph from Studio Six Digital for iPhone.

Roof construction is composition tar and gravel over steel decking.

I am further impeded by the fact that since I was on vacation, the offices next door have been occupied. This means that I can't really do anything to the wall on that side anymore. I can however, do whatever is necessary to my side of the wall.

I guess the ceiling is another matter all together.

Any help with this would be intensely appreciated.



(edited because I can't type)

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goose134
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Post by goose134 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:37 pm

I can tell you that on your office neighbor's shared wall, you should have two layers of 5/8" drywall on each side. This is what is called a demising wall and must have a two hour fire rating. The roof you described will typically have a thick foam insulation over the pan deck and under the tar. How thick will depend on the age of the building. Older buildings don't have any, and newer buildings are subject to energy codes that usually mandate four inches of rigid foam. I don't think you'd hear rain on the roof, but you'd have to measure it for sure. Sounds like the weak link is the glass.
I make a living as an electrician, not recording in the basement.

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