Dynamics for overheads

rdlittle25 · Post by **rdlittle25** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:57 pm

I'll second the 635a suggestion. I tried it out today in a sort of faux Recorderman with the 635a over the snare and a Fathead behind my right shoulder. The 635a gives a really nice snare sound through the OH, IMO.

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:44 pm

vvv wrote:Ha!

I just got that for the kick!

Besides, and again, I wanna do Recorderman, what needs two mic's.

Besides which, the e602 is one of them pre-EQ'd kick mic's, such that it has a scoop and some boosts set for the kick.

I suspect using it as a OH would require a lot of EQ?

Would that I could afford a pair of 421's or SM7b's ...

One of the things I noticed right away was how freakin' eq'able that 602 is. All the frequencies are there if you want them. Also, it's so positionable. I was getting usable kick sounds no matter where I put it, aimed at the kick. Even back a ways. Seems like you could tell pretty quick, with a mono overhead test, if it would be worth getting another one. Besides it's "smiley face" eq, there's a reason it's called that, because it's great on everything. (kidding)

About that eq'able thing. I keep thinking about something I think I read in TapeOP. Or maybe it was some guy who popped up on TOMB for a bit. This guy was totally against condensers. He thought they were the devil or something. Said they all add distortion and that dynamics and ribbons were much more equable, usable and malleable because they didn't add distortion that would get accentuated by eq, etc.

Did I just dream that? The e602 really made me think about what that guy was saying. Condensers seem really sensitive, but at what cost. Especially us guys who only use the cheapos. They have a lot of shitty extra circuitry in there.

Brett Siler · Post by **Brett Siler** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:34 am

gregg jugg wrote:Dynamics can take a beating and handle high spl, but they will not give the detail that sdc's or LDC's will, which is why you don't really see them used in studios as OH's (even when someone is going "retro," "natural," or some other euphemism for a simplified approach).

I heard a track that someone recorded where the drum set was mic'd with all 57's (overheads and close mics) and it sounded awesome. Not even in a retro way or as an effect. It just sounded like rock. It definitely didn't sound like super articulate condesors, and I wouldn't use it for a modern metal session or a jazz fusion session, but it did sound pretty great. I think most punk, blues, rock, sludge metal and even some pop stuff could sound great with dynamics as overheads. 57's have a frequency spectrum from 40hz-15khz. If you really need more extreme low or high end, just add a little eq. I feel like they add a little extra texture or pulp, while condensors a pretty vanilla (gross over statement of course). Sometimes vanillla works and is good, some times you want something with a little more brine to it.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:56 pm

Snarl 12/8 wrote:
vvv wrote:Ha!

I just got that for the kick!

Besides, and again, I wanna do Recorderman, what needs two mic's.

Besides which, the e602 is one of them pre-EQ'd kick mic's, such that it has a scoop and some boosts set for the kick.

I suspect using it as a OH would require a lot of EQ?

Would that I could afford a pair of 421's or SM7b's ...
One of the things I noticed right away was how freakin' eq'able that 602 is. All the frequencies are there if you want them. Also, it's so positionable. I was getting usable kick sounds no matter where I put it, aimed at the kick. Even back a ways. Seems like you could tell pretty quick, with a mono overhead test, if it would be worth getting another one. Besides it's "smiley face" eq, there's a reason it's called that, because it's great on everything. (kidding)

About that eq'able thing. I keep thinking about something I think I read in TapeOP. Or maybe it was some guy who popped up on TOMB for a bit. This guy was totally against condensers. He thought they were the devil or something. Said they all add distortion and that dynamics and ribbons were much more equable, usable and malleable because they didn't add distortion that would get accentuated by eq, etc.

Did I just dream that? The e602 really made me think about what that guy was saying. Condensers seem really sensitive, but at what cost. Especially us guys who only use the cheapos. They have a lot of shitty extra circuitry in there.

Dynamics seem to hear more like humans.

Gregg Juke · Post by **Gregg Juke** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:32 pm

Actually Brett, I did pre-production drum tracks once (I later did the multi-mike album takes for the same record), and the engineer put up a bd mike and an SM57 as an overhead, and the sound was surprisingly cool, in a Rolling-Stones-ish kind of way. But in comparison to the multi-mike/condenser set-up, it still lacked a lot of detail. And of course, that's not a standard way of doing things. But I know what you mean, in the right situation...

GJ

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:36 pm

OK. I thought I'd report back. e602 sounds pretty crazy on OH duty. The smiley thing is waaaay pronounced. The cymbals sound harsh and brittle, but the kick still sounds tight-mic'd. I feel like I need to go through my system and make sure I was just recording the e602 on that channel. There's tons of sub frequencies and everything. EQ'ing couldn't really solve the balance problems to my satisfaction, but sometimes I think I suck at eq'ing.

That fucking e602 will reach out and grab thy kick tones from the gates of hell, if need be.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:18 am

I do love that mic, and feel it did aiight on vocals and guitar, after some pass-filtering. (See the first cuppla songs, here.)

But I suspect, as you apparently conclude, its EQ is too rad for OH.

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:22 am

rdlittle25 wrote:I'll second the 635a suggestion. I tried it out today in a sort of faux Recorderman with the 635a over the snare and a Fathead behind my right shoulder. The 635a gives a really nice snare sound through the OH, IMO.

FWIW, "Recorderman" as I understand and use it, is designed to get a stereo picture of the drums, what means, IMNSHO, that the two mics used need to be placed so, and similar enough for the stereonessossity, and then panned so on mix-down - you wouldn't probably want the snare coming through more or "better" or differently on just one of the mics.

Brett Siler · Post by **Brett Siler** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:37 pm

Gregg Juke wrote:Actually Brett, I did pre-production drum tracks once (I later did the multi-mike album takes for the same record), and the engineer put up a bd mike and an SM57 as an overhead, and the sound was surprisingly cool, in a Rolling-Stones-ish kind of way. But in comparison to the multi-mike/condenser set-up, it still lacked a lot of detail. And of course, that's not a standard way of doing things. But I know what you mean, in the right situation...

GJ

Right on. What got me into experimenting with dynamics as overheads is dispite my tracking room being well treated with bass traps and ceiling coulds, it is still pretty bright. I have a low ceiling and concrete walls and floor. The natural reverb of the room sounds very good, but bright. I figured Figure 8 ribbon mics would not do well with low ceilings (reflections off the ceiling going into the back of the mic causing some phasing or frequency cancellation). I need something that will tame the cymbals, and has a cardiod polar pattern, so hence experimenting with dynamics. So far its been fun and suprising.

rdlittle25 · Post by **rdlittle25** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:00 pm

vvv wrote:FWIW, "Recorderman" as I understand and use it, is designed to get a stereo picture of the drums, what means, IMNSHO, that the two mics used need to be placed so, and similar enough for the stereonessossity, and then panned so on mix-down - you wouldn't probably want the snare coming through more or "better" or differently on just one of the mics.

Yeah, what started out as "conventional" Recorderman really ended up with the 635a directly above the snare pointed straight down and the Fathead moving down towards my right hip, aimed halfway between the ride and the kick beater with the floor tom sort of in the null. Basically, by the end of day it was nothing like Recorderman.

Panning the 635 halfway left and Fathead halfway right gives a nice stereo image, with the snare placed a little off center (where I personally like it) and the floor opposite it. Sounds very "natural" to me, atleast in terms of what it sounds like from the drum throne.

frans_13 · Post by **frans_13** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:41 am

Ribbons. May I repeat myself: ribbons. So either you have your ceiling high enough or an absorber above. All the detail you want minus condenser resonances. Condenser capsules are tensioned so high, they most likely got resonances in places where your cymbals won't befriend them. Hence the question about eq-ability.
Of course you can avoid that with gooood condensers, but : $$$$$.

Have a lowcut ready, m'kay?

fat in the middle · Post by **fat in the middle** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:14 am

Pardon me if it has been mentioned already, but the AKG D5's are good cheap dynamics that have a pattern that decreases leakage and feedback. A different pattern than a 57 or 58

cjogo · Post by **cjogo** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:39 am

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i- ... ign=110729

$69 for AT's today

We use a U 89 for most overhead work-- OMNI mode

where old school meets middle school

vvv · Post by **vvv** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:15 am

Thanks for the hint on the D5!

bannerj · Post by **bannerj** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:25 am

frans_13 wrote:Ribbons. May I repeat myself: ribbons. So either you have your ceiling high enough or an absorber above. All the detail you want minus condenser resonances. Condenser capsules are tensioned so high, they most likely got resonances in places where your cymbals won't befriend them. Hence the question about eq-ability.
Of course you can avoid that with gooood condensers, but : $$$$$.

Have a lowcut ready, m'kay?

some students just used the fatheads II's on OH and got one of the best sounds I've heard in a while. The toms are so full and round. Of course they tuned them up right and they tracked in the boiler room of the chapel.

I've used the EV 635 on OH too. My experience is that they aren't that great on songs with lots of cymbals. They can be pretty harsh. I want to try them again closer or as a crotch mic.

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Dynamics for overheads

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