Yamaha PM1000 / PM2000 as Mic Pre's?

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

User avatar
mechanicalmastering
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:39 pm
Contact:

Yamaha PM1000 / PM2000 as Mic Pre's?

Post by mechanicalmastering » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:49 pm

How good are these things? What would they be comparible to? What are they good on? Which one is more desirable? How hard would it be to rack up a stereo pair? Thanks!

bluesman
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:01 am
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas

Post by bluesman » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:19 am

I have six PM1000 pre's racked up. I like them a lot. I re-capped with Nichicon FM caps & swapped out the transistors for modern, lower noise Motorola as suggested (check the pin out on the Motorola...it is not the same as the original & must be oriented correctly...no problem as long as you pay attention & do your homework). I racked them up & did all the work myself. It wasn't hard at all. The best advice I got was from Scodiddly, who told me to unwind all the wax string & take the strips apart, they do look mighty intimidating before they are disassembled. Its such a simple project when you can actually see what you are working with. Do some research on phantom power too, its there, but its ground must be wired in separately or no phantom. I was able to buy an original PM1000 power supply on ebay for $30.00 to power all six units & it included the phantom power supply.
I use them as dedicated drum chanels & they never disapoint. My other pre's are a full rack of Seventh Circle and a few Groove Tubes Bricks. The PM1000's hold their own easily.
These things were more expensive at one time when everyone was racking them. I think that the market has gotten softer & they can be had for a reasonable price again.....think $75.00 + or - range for a chanel strip including the input & output xfmr's. Replacement electrolytic caps & transistors are not that expensive. Expect to spend under $30.00 per chanel for caps & transistors. You can easily rack them in a 1U case....I canabalized some old medical test equipment for the rack cases. The only tools I needed were a good soldering iron & solder sucker, a dremmel and a drill. Its a fun project that, with patience, yields good results.
I hope this was helpful.....enjoy! : )
"The digital future sucks the boils off my white ass." McHugh

User avatar
Jeff White
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3257
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:15 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

Post by Jeff White » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:27 am

There is a ton of information about these all over the internet. I suppose that if you are savvy with electronics that racking is easy. Basically you cut the chassis down to fit in a 19" rack, recap, add an output transformer, build a power supply for 2 of them that also puts out 48 voltz for phamtom.

I have one of Digital Drummer's creations from here on the TOMB. It's a racked up talk-back unit. I use it all of the time for "snare belly" (bottom snare), guitar amps, bass DI. I've even used it on vocals. I have 4 channels of BAE 312 preamps that I get to borrow a bunch, and I definitely would not say that the PM1000 is as good as them to my ears for kick, snare, overheads. But it sounds good and is definitely a nice preamp. It gets a lot of love over here.

Not to shamelessly plug myself or anything but I have 4 PM1000 strips for sale here: http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... 344#651344. I just never got around to racking them and I'm looking at going with a 500 series lunch box in 2012. Raising funds.
I record, mix, and master in my home studio, Ch?teau Blanco, and in various spaces in the Philly area. http://jeffwhiteaudio.com/

Nate Dort
tinnitus
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:07 pm
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Post by Nate Dort » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:37 am

I just finished racking a pair for TOMB'er mattvon:

Image
http://www.natedort.com/archives/116

They're great pres. I had a pair myself for a while, but I needed the rack space and I already had an abundance of pres. They were my go-to bass DI for a while. They rule on low-frequency stuff, like kick and bass cabinets.

groover
gettin' sounds
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:52 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Post by groover » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:28 am

Lovely rack-ing job!

User avatar
Jeff White
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3257
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:15 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

Post by Jeff White » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:04 pm

Hey Nate I now have like a zillion questions for you. Would you mind if I PM'd you? I may keep my strips and attempt this on my own in 2012.

Jeff
I record, mix, and master in my home studio, Ch?teau Blanco, and in various spaces in the Philly area. http://jeffwhiteaudio.com/

Nate Dort
tinnitus
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:07 pm
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Post by Nate Dort » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:37 pm

ipressrecord wrote:Hey Nate I now have like a zillion questions for you. Would you mind if I PM'd you? I may keep my strips and attempt this on my own in 2012.

Jeff
No problem, but I'm probably quicker to answer if you email me: natedort a+ gmail

User avatar
markjazzbassist
buyin' gear
Posts: 553
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:33 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Post by markjazzbassist » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:43 am

I'm looking to do this as well, but have someone do the racking for me. Anyone familiar with any companies or individuals that do that?

I'm excited to use these on bass, drum machines, and electric piano.

Nate Dort
tinnitus
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:07 pm
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Post by Nate Dort » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:03 am

markjazzbassist wrote:I'm looking to do this as well, but have someone do the racking for me. Anyone familiar with any companies or individuals that do that?.
Ahem. Check about 5 posts up. I've done some for about 5 TOMB'ers so far.

User avatar
mechanicalmastering
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:39 pm
Contact:

Post by mechanicalmastering » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:31 am

So, what else are these babies good for? How would you describe their characteristics? Which one, (pm1000 vs pm2000), would be more desirable?

User avatar
digitaldrummer
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2022
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Post by digitaldrummer » Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:02 am

mechanicalmastering wrote:So, what else are these babies good for? How would you describe their characteristics? Which one, (pm1000 vs pm2000), would be more desirable?
PM1000's are good on just about anything. They have a solid bottom and low mids and if you wire a DI its really great on some bass guitars. I like them on drums too. I think they are a bit like an API but slightly darker - of course if you have the EQ and boost the highs a bit its closer. sometimes the darkness is great on electric guitars - not too harsh, or if you have a vocal mic (or vocalist) that is a little sibilant. pretty meaty on kick and snare.

I had a lot of these channels and sold them all except one. these are great for the price, but there are more magical pres out there - they just cost more and the differences are subtle.

Mike
Last edited by digitaldrummer on Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mechanicalmastering
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:39 pm
Contact:

Post by mechanicalmastering » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:30 pm

What are some of the differences between the two? :roll:

User avatar
digitaldrummer
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2022
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Post by digitaldrummer » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:32 pm

mechanicalmastering wrote:What are some of the differences between the two? :roll:
I've only heard the PM1K so can't really comment. The PM2K is a totally different design with different silicon (the PM2000 using a API 2520-style potted opamp...) and transformers so likely sound different.

in2thegapagain85
ass engineer
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:24 am
Location: Reno NV
Contact:

Post by in2thegapagain85 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:46 pm

I have a 32 channel board that I'm trying to get rid of but haven't had much luck...I'm thinking about selling of the channels so people can rack them for pres. If anyone is interested let me know. Thanks!

ebaudio
audio school graduate
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:14 am

Post by ebaudio » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:25 am

I have had both the PM1000 and the PM2000. Here is my 2 cents.

The PM1000 has a very thick, full sound, especially on anything with some low end. It sounds great on drums, bass, etc. It has some well documented limitations, such as EQ points being odd, no direct outs, a bit noisy (compared to modern consoles). It is very easy to rack up though and is a great color to have in the toolbox for not that much money. The limitations are pretty easily fixed as well.

I don't know that I would use the PM1000 console as the center of my studio though. To many limitations, routing wise, in my opinion. I tried it and now am in the process of selling some channels and using the money to rack up the rest....For some people it would work though and it could make a really good summing mixer as well.

The PM2000 is similar to API in preamp design and as a result sounds somewhat similar. I never did it but it looks like you should be able to drop in any API style op amp such as Millenia Media or John Hardy. It has a much more usable EQ (in my opinion), direct outs, better power supply, and much better routing than a PM1000. I don't know that I would rack a pair up though unless you get a great deal on the modules. For an API style rackmount pre I would probably go with something from Five Fish, or buy the parts to make one.


In a nutshell, my opinion is that if you are looking of a console to be the center of your studio I would look at the PM2000, or possibly a M1516 or M1532. If you are looking at racking up some pres I would probably go with the PM1000, and maybe something else as well to give you a different color.

maybe more than 2 cents....

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Soul One and 33 guests