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ubertar
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Post by ubertar » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:53 am

RoyMatthews wrote:
ubertar wrote: the motivation for that, though, seems to be a stagnancy from within that forces them to look outside for new ideas (I'm thinking mainly of visual (and conceptual) art-- I'm not sure if this necessarily applies to music; music is much more conservative, generally).
This all feels like something Andy Warhol would be into. But he 'dabbled' in a lot of forms of art. I mean that in a good way. I'm not sure I see it being a lasting movement but more as a reaction to the way things are and as I said before, a statement. I think most people will miss the point and the only ones who will get it are the ones who are already on board so you might be preaching to the choir. Maybe I'm missing the point about ownership and you wanting to 'own' the way it's distributed. I'm just not sure of the sustainability of that.
I'm no Warhol fan. I think he and Duchamp before him pretty much destroyed everything that was good about the "art world". Good thing that art doesn't depend on the Art World to exist! But that's an aside...

I think you're right as far as this happening right now. Like with what Beck did that you mentioned earlier. It all depends, I think, on where things go with the internet. If Net Neutrality is ever killed, all bets are off. But even without that happening, the internet is becoming more and more centralized, and I think that's a very bad thing.
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Post by RoyMatthews » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:55 am

I will agree that we are probably in the wild west portion of the internet and it's only going to be more regulated and controlled.
"If there's one ironclad rule of pop history, it's this: The monkey types Hamlet only once."

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ubertar
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Post by ubertar » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:03 am

RoyMatthews wrote:I think it comes back to just playing live. Unless you control the means of playback (which is theoretically possible and interesting if not expensive and not very feasible) it will get out on the net and beyond your control. To be really underground would be to never have a recording of the music. Play it live and vary it each time so it's a fairly new experience each performance.
I think this would be a part of it. But it precludes recording, and I think people would still want recordings... plus recording is an entirely different (though overlapping) art form from live performance. One doesn't substitute for the other. A play is not a movie.
get a hammered sound from guitar or bass! http://www.stringhammer.com
hand-made version to raise money for manufacturing... kind of like kickstarter, but you get a fully functional item now

Album!
https://paulrubenstein.bandcamp.com/album/one-eye-awake

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Post by RoyMatthews » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:05 am

True. That's fair.
"If there's one ironclad rule of pop history, it's this: The monkey types Hamlet only once."

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Post by Nick Sevilla » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:16 am

To me, to keep artists going, we fans have to respect them and their way of life.

Including:

1.- If an artist does not want you to take video or pictures during their live performance, respect this.

2.- If you use online services such as Spotify etc, and you like the artist, buy their music in the most direct way that gives them the most profit.

3.- Start changing the culture around you. If you believe a certain online system is unfair, or that whatever other common thing-being-done is unfair to artists, denounce it, and have integrity. Speak up. Eventually more and more people, especially the younger generation, will see this rejection of the devaluation of Art and artists, and hopefully at least think about it.

Cheers
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Post by GlowSounds » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:34 am

I love the idea of this.

But it would be very tricky for an emerging artist who is trying to gain traction in the music world. It would put you at such a huge competitive disadvantage with everyone else. I know that sounds very bottom-line oriented, but unfortunately that's the way of the market.

It seems like the kind of thing that could work for an established artist. Sort of like Radiohead giving away free albums: works well when you have a huge following and a fat bank account.

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Post by ubertar » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:38 am

Part of it, also, I think, is that so much of our lives are online at this point that it would just be fun to be part of something cultural that's entirely off the grid. It would feel subversive (whether or not it actually is, which is arguable, though I think it is).
get a hammered sound from guitar or bass! http://www.stringhammer.com
hand-made version to raise money for manufacturing... kind of like kickstarter, but you get a fully functional item now

Album!
https://paulrubenstein.bandcamp.com/album/one-eye-awake

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Post by GlowSounds » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:46 am

This raises an interesting point about music that is underground. Maybe I'm being devil's advocate, or cynical- but it seems that somewhere deep down, the goal of most (not all!) underground/off-grid bands is to get on-grid.

Isn't your average Bushwick loft-party band really just trying to get known?

For those that aren't, they are truly creating art for art's sake, which is actually pretty rare in the music world. (i.e. a small percentage of the total people making music publicly)

So maybe this all comes down to a matter of those people making music with the goal of commercial or popular recognition vs. those who truly don't care. For the latter- I think your idea is AMAZING!

I'm rambling.

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ubertar
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Post by ubertar » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:47 am

GlowSounds, I agree with you... but a key part of that is, as you put it,
the music world
.
The point of this, to a large extent, is to operate outside "the music world". Yes, it would be easier for established artists, but I don't think those are the people who would matter in this... like with Radiohead, it would be seen mainly as a publicity stunt. But it would mean that for it to work, the work itself would have to be intrinsically really good or interesting for it to proliferate. It would have to be good enough for people to spread the word, and to make the extra effort needed to get a hold of it. It couldn't just be the same pop crap or whatever either, or what would be the point? Then it's just a marketing gimmick. And of course even this movement would get co-opted, too, as everything eventually does. But it would take longer.
get a hammered sound from guitar or bass! http://www.stringhammer.com
hand-made version to raise money for manufacturing... kind of like kickstarter, but you get a fully functional item now

Album!
https://paulrubenstein.bandcamp.com/album/one-eye-awake

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ubertar
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Post by ubertar » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:50 am

Nice cross-post... we said essentially the same thing but in a different way!
get a hammered sound from guitar or bass! http://www.stringhammer.com
hand-made version to raise money for manufacturing... kind of like kickstarter, but you get a fully functional item now

Album!
https://paulrubenstein.bandcamp.com/album/one-eye-awake

GlowSounds
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Post by GlowSounds » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:52 am

ubertar wrote: But it would mean that for it to work, the work itself would have to be intrinsically really good or interesting for it to proliferate. It would have to be good enough for people to spread the word, and to make the extra effort needed to get a hold of it. It couldn't just be the same pop crap or whatever either, or what would be the point? Then it's just a marketing gimmick. And of course even this movement would get co-opted, too, as everything eventually does. But it would take longer.
ubertar, I dig this. I think I'm just jaded by the fact that I know so many truly talented people making really compelling and relevant music who are unable to get ahead even by using all digital warfare possible.

But maybe that just proves your point- there needs to be another way for good music to get around!

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Post by RoyMatthews » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:54 am

It sounds like you Brooklyn guys should meet for a beer offline and start something up. None of this Online crap! :twisted:
"If there's one ironclad rule of pop history, it's this: The monkey types Hamlet only once."

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ubertar
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Post by ubertar » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:59 am

RoyMatthews wrote:It sounds like you Brooklyn guys should meet for a beer offline and start something up. None of this Online crap! :twisted:
I'm all for that. Feel free to send me a PM and we can set something up.
I'm actually in Queens now, on the BK border (Ridgewood/Bushwick).
get a hammered sound from guitar or bass! http://www.stringhammer.com
hand-made version to raise money for manufacturing... kind of like kickstarter, but you get a fully functional item now

Album!
https://paulrubenstein.bandcamp.com/album/one-eye-awake

GlowSounds
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Post by GlowSounds » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:03 am

RoyMatthews wrote:It sounds like you Brooklyn guys should meet for a beer offline and start something up. None of this Online crap! :twisted:
well... it would probably just be easier to snapchat.

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Post by holidayhell » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:16 am

Completely retro pointless bullshit. You have at your literal fingertips the ability to promote your art to anyone in the world and now it's not cool enough? More elitism and needless hoop jumping needs to be put in place to make something more "real"? Pointless.

It's hilarious how its okay and cool to still record everything digitally but you can't let anybody listen to it that way. How does keeping things easy for the artist yet hard for the audience make the art any better? It doesnt.

What's even more hilarious is this exact revolution thing is happening as you post and you dont know about it. I would write about it but then it wouldn't be cool. You can see the dilemma.

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