So, who's getting a Pono?

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

ampguy
buyin' a studio
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:44 pm
Location: ca

So, who's getting a Pono?

Post by ampguy » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:07 pm

What will be the first tunes you listen to on it?

Anyone wanna get a "group buy" deal going?

oh wait...

User avatar
alexdingley
buyin' gear
Posts: 532
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Contact:

been so curious

Post by alexdingley » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:30 pm

I've been really curious to see how this whole thing goes. I love that he's taking on quality issues... but as someone who wanted SACD to succeed, I am not certain that this will do very well.

More power to him though.

Here's the NPR recording of his talk at SXSW: NPR: Neil Young Explains Pono

User avatar
alexdingley
buyin' gear
Posts: 532
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Contact:

okay.. .listening to this speech

Post by alexdingley » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:48 pm

I'm listening to Neil Young talk about audio quality in this SXSW talk, and it begs the question...

Why isn't an artist like Neil Young pushing SACD / DSD downloads? If he's trying to setup a new device & distribution channel, why not partner up with companies that are making DSD converters and really push for something better than what we've got.

I dunno... I'm just wondering if there was anyone out there who's got Neil Young's ear who could have pitched the idea to do something better than just high-grade PCM.

Bro Shark
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: SF

Post by Bro Shark » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:58 pm

Screw Pono, I wanna hear some new ampguy jams.

ampguy
buyin' a studio
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:44 pm
Location: ca

you just might get double lucky

Post by ampguy » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:21 pm

I am working on mastering some material just for the Pono.

And to the other poster, not from Neil, but from someone who's worked with him in the studio for many years - "24/192 LPCM kills SACD" - actually was pretty close to being in TapeOp magazine once, long ago ...

Bro Shark wrote:Screw Pono, I wanna hear some new ampguy jams.

kslight
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2549
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:44 pm

Not that I don't think MP3s sound like crap, but how many of these do they really think they are going to sell? And how many millions of units would have to be in circulation before artists I care about bother to release music in higher res format? Right now there are 5,500 sold on Kickstarter (700 or so backers didn't buy a Pono)? I realize there's 33 days to go + presumedly a widespread commercial release?but you are going to have a tough time convincing me to buy this if the content isn't there. Most importantly, is anyone actually going to hear a bit of difference in the car stereo, or gym earbuds, etc??

And forget the quality of the compression or the quality of the D/A on your average music player, let's just get everyone to remaster all their loudness war songs, because I think that would make a much more noticeable difference than any amount of audiophile hoo-hah in this thing.

ampguy
buyin' a studio
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:44 pm
Location: ca

don't worry

Post by ampguy » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:52 pm

I'm starting the pono re-mastering company. Eventually all the music will be optimized.

kslight wrote:Not that I don't think MP3s sound like crap, but how many of these do they really think they are going to sell? And how many millions of units would have to be in circulation before artists I care about bother to release music in higher res format? Right now there are 5,500 sold on Kickstarter (700 or so backers didn't buy a Pono)? I realize there's 33 days to go + presumedly a widespread commercial release?but you are going to have a tough time convincing me to buy this if the content isn't there. Most importantly, is anyone actually going to hear a bit of difference in the car stereo, or gym earbuds, etc??

And forget the quality of the compression or the quality of the D/A on your average music player, let's just get everyone to remaster all their loudness war songs, because I think that would make a much more noticeable difference than any amount of audiophile hoo-hah in this thing.

User avatar
alexdingley
buyin' gear
Posts: 532
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Contact:

kills?

Post by alexdingley » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:28 pm

24/192 LPCM kills SACD? I've never heard anyone say that, but now my interest in piqued. I'd love to know how someone made that comparison... but I digress: This is about Pono... and I'm fully behind it. I've been cutting 88.2 for multitrack sessions since 2009... so I'd be happy to release material at those higher resolutions.

drumsound
zen recordist
Posts: 6690
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Bloomington IL
Contact:

Post by drumsound » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:46 pm

I love the idea, but I think its gonna flop. It will invigorate Apple to attempt to destroy it, and they've got more money than god, so who's gonna win that war? The Pono kickstarter goal was $800,00 and they have $1.3 Million with a monthi-sh to go. Lets say they raise $4Million. Apple spends that in a week on advertising. Do the good people at Pono have the resources to make the buying public believe that HAVE TO HAVE this product? Do they have the capitol to try to know the King off the mountain? I highly doubt it.

That said I would LOVE for Neil Young and the Pono team to to do just that.

User avatar
digitaldrummer
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2088
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:33 am

or let's look at another scenario. Sony or WB or whoever offers Neil a big wad of cash for the whole thing and decides to take on Apple themselves. They will also ultimately fail (for many reasons). Neil walks away with a wad of cash and a smile on his face.

Who will buy the Pono? People that listen to vinyl? unlikely.

Kids? why? they already have a phone that plays the 64Kbps mp3 they ripped off youtube. they obviously don't care that it sounds like shit on full blast through the mono speaker on their iPhone.

so that leaves old people (yes, look at the people that endorsed him at SXSW - even Norah Jones is about 35 so she is "old" now too). ok, yeah, they have money to buy the $400 player and download music for twice the cost of a CD. Wait, what? Music will cost 2X the price of a CD? Yes. $15-25 will be the typical proposed cost for an album. Will it sound twice as good? Probably only if you plug it in with a $200 Monster power cord.

Bro Shark
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: SF

Post by Bro Shark » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:08 am

If it doesn't offer a streaming service it's going to fail. Sure, a lot of us like to own and maintain a digital "collection" of hi-res files. But for most people that's not worth the trouble when you have Spotify and similar services. That is the short-term future of digital music. The long-term future is too hazy to make out.

ampguy
buyin' a studio
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:44 pm
Location: ca

well ...

Post by ampguy » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:36 pm

Whether Warner, Apple, or whoever buys them, it could be a win for everyone, assuming they didn't buy them to bury them.

Those who are happy with cheap free low res music, will probably get paid to listen to it, and high-res downloads will get cheaper than the initial prices.

Downloading a file for now is not such a big deal. As a drummer, you probably want your cymbals sounding as nice recorded as they sound live.

And to the dsd guy, the ES9018 supports it with a programmable filter - so you can do a kickstarter project for a DSD ecosystem and call it "the killed Pono" ;)
digitaldrummer wrote:or let's look at another scenario. Sony or WB or whoever offers Neil a big wad of cash for the whole thing and decides to take on Apple themselves. They will also ultimately fail (for many reasons). Neil walks away with a wad of cash and a smile on his face.

Who will buy the Pono? People that listen to vinyl? unlikely.

Kids? why? they already have a phone that plays the 64Kbps mp3 they ripped off youtube. they obviously don't care that it sounds like shit on full blast through the mono speaker on their iPhone.

so that leaves old people (yes, look at the people that endorsed him at SXSW - even Norah Jones is about 35 so she is "old" now too). ok, yeah, they have money to buy the $400 player and download music for twice the cost of a CD. Wait, what? Music will cost 2X the price of a CD? Yes. $15-25 will be the typical proposed cost for an album. Will it sound twice as good? Probably only if you plug it in with a $200 Monster power cord.

User avatar
ubertar
cryogenically thawing
Posts: 3748
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:20 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Post by ubertar » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:14 pm

If they have a big advertising campaign, their slogan could be, "I got pwned"!
No need to thank me, Neil... just pm me and I'll let you know where to address the check. :wink:
get a hammered sound from guitar or bass! http://www.stringhammer.com
hand-made version to raise money for manufacturing... kind of like kickstarter, but you get a fully functional item now

Album!
https://paulrubenstein.bandcamp.com/album/one-eye-awake

User avatar
ubertar
cryogenically thawing
Posts: 3748
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:20 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Post by ubertar » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:20 pm

JERRY: I know, I hated those kids. In fact, I hate anyone that ever had a pono when they were growing up.

MANYA: ..I had a pono.

(The room is dead quiet)

JERRY: ..Well, I didn't really mean a pono, per se.

MANYA: (Angry) When I was a little girl in Poland, we all had ponos. My sister had pono, my cousin had pono, ..So, what's wrong with that?

JERRY: Nothing. Nothing at all. I was just merely expressing..

HELEN: Should we have coffee? Who's having coffee?

MANYA: He was a beautiful pono! And I loved him.

JERRY: Well, I'm sure you did. Who wouldn't love a pono? Who wouldn't love a person that had a pono?

MANYA: You! You said so!

I don't really think they're intending to take on Apple or make a ton of money on this. I think it's more about the principle... getting people to care more about the sound quality of the recordings they listen to, and giving people an option to listen to better quality recordings by providing a better format. I hope they're successful.
get a hammered sound from guitar or bass! http://www.stringhammer.com
hand-made version to raise money for manufacturing... kind of like kickstarter, but you get a fully functional item now

Album!
https://paulrubenstein.bandcamp.com/album/one-eye-awake

chris harris
speech impediment
Posts: 4270
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 pm
Location: Norman, OK
Contact:

Post by chris harris » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:38 pm

PoNOPE.

What a joke. I thought he was going to revolutionize THE DELIVERY FORMAT. Now, he's just making a cumbersome portable player with some audiophile-ish components, that plays files that other players already play.

It's really kind of sad. He began his SXSW talk with the ridiculously up-his-own-ass suggestion that he is "rescuing an art form." Please... Just like with his ridiculous electric car project, his heart is in the right place. But, in the end, he just comes off kinda goofy and out of touch. I think all of those artists that hammed it up and made all of those bullshit statements in the Kickstarter video should be ashamed of themselves for enabling him on this waste of time.

Thankfully, while he's got the pull to get tons of famous people to blow smoke about how great this portable player sounded in Neil's car, there are people with a more complete understanding of audio technology who are continuing the work that has produced a pretty steady increase in digital quality over the last couple of decades. Neil will get lots of press. But, this notion that he's revolutionizing ANYTHING is silly.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests