Introduction to tape recording

[Sammigz]

I am very VERY interested in starting to record with tape... Only problem is, dont know where to start!

I just finished an audio engineering class. The teacher was telling us about ADAT tape machines to get started, could find them on Ebay relatively cheap. Right now I have a Presonus FireStudio Project running straight to my computer and have been recording digitally for years now.

Basically, I am looking for any good walk-thrus or introductions to recording with tape. I am looking at the Alesis ADAT machine and the Tascam MX-2424. How would i go about connecting these to record? and is this even what im looking for?

Obviously I'm new to this so any tips or points in the right direction will help!
Thanks!

[Teacher's Pet]

I don't think ADAT "counts" as tape. It uses tape as a storage medium for a digitally encoded signal. It is apparently universally hated these days, with all of the drawbacks of both analog AND digital, combined. I would avoid this.

The MX-2424 is a hard disk recorder, there's no tape involved anywhere, as far as I can tell.

I'd recommend a Tascam 424 4-track cassette recorder. Some of the last ones they made, (Mk11 or something) are easy enough to find and easy to use. You can record 4 tracks at once and mix on a separate mixer (or ITB if you prefer).

A $5 thrift store VHS can be a fun 2-track analog audio deck to mess around with. I'd start there, just make sure you get one that says "Hi-Fi" on the front somewhere. You'll need some external mic pres to try that out. Use the RCA audio inputs and outputs. Boom.

Analog recording and playback can be extremely complicated and expensive at the professional level --- but the entry level can be simple, cheap (or free) and still highly satisfying, fun, educational, etc. Go for it.

Use a 2-track stereo cassette if you can find one cheap.

Any of these amateur shoestring options can still teach you a lot about tape compression and distortion, gain staging, setting levels, bouncing, ping-ponging, reading a VU meter, etc etc etc...

Most of us pre-digital folks messed with this stuff out of necessity, for years, figuring stuff out. It was a good experience to have.

[honkyjonk]

Don't get an ADAT! They're digital, yet they have all the potential transport problems of a tape machine. They use VHS tapes, but only to encode digital information. And they sound awful. Often described as the worst of both worlds.

That Tascam unit is digital as well, but doesn't have moving parts (outside of the hard drive spinning), which would elevate it above an ADAT for sure.

I recommend getting a cassette 4 track first. When you decide it's bandwidth is too narrow, or that it distorts too much or that there's too much noise (may never happen?) then look at 1/2 inch 8 tracks. They cost more, and the tape costs way more and they require a mixer and alignment tape, and lots of learning. Stuff like Tascam 48, 58, Otari MX5050 would be good to research.

Or if you just want the process (i.e. mouseless, computer screenless, nonunlimitedtrackness) look for an Alesis HD24 (or aforementioned Tascam) and a mixer, or one of those all in one digital thingies (Boss, Roland, Akai etc. Even these would be much better than an ADAT)

Not that a good album can't be made on an ADAT, but at this point, your teacher is recommending probably the worst format I can think of.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Any of these amateur shoestring options can still teach you a lot about tape compression and distortion, gain staging, setting levels, bouncing, ping-ponging, reading a VU meter, etc etc etc...

Most of us pre-digital folks messed with this stuff out of necessity, for years, figuring stuff out. It was a good experience to have.

and we had to walk barefoot to our studios, which were 2 miles away, uphill both ways, and it was always snowing.

i cassette 4-tracked for years, and when i wanted to move up, it was right at the height of adats and the yamaha promix 1, or whatever their early digital board was called. i was all set to drop a bunch of money on that stuff, but somehow i had a rare flash of insight and got an otari 1/2" 8 track and a mackie board instead.

i am thankful every day that i learned on tape and not on those damn adats. i probably would've given up.

[cgarges]

I grew up playing with cassette 4-tracks in high school and had some limited experience with 2" tape in high school and college (and DASH, actually), but almost all of my formative professional years as an audio engineer were done on ADAT. It was a standard in most mid-level studios for YEARS. It was an unstable, not amazing-sounding format (although that EP that Mitch Easter did for Motocaster is the single most amazing-sounding ADAT recording I've ever heard), but it was a total necessity and it did have a lot of functions that were COMPLETELY cool to be able to use if you were just used to analog recording. The BRC was an especially useful tool for accessing some of the really smart functions that ADATs had. I also spent several years working with Tascam's DA format and the film guys liked those a little better, so they were found in better studios. They were supposed to have had better transports, but those things went out of alignment every bit as much as the Alesis machines did and were even more expensive to fix. Still, I'm kind of amazed at the amount of "flying" things around that I did on those machines via the offset mode. Kind of crazy to think about nowadays.

You could not pay me enough money to use one as my primary recording format now. They were entirely too unreliable when they were only a few years old.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[kslight]

What others said about ADAT, or the Tascam MX2424?not recommended. You should also note that neither are self-contained solutions, you would also require a good size mixer and a mess of cabling to get either solution really functional?and when its all said and done?both machines are digital.

My personal recommendation for a bang for buck introduction to tape would be depending on what suits your budget:

Tascam 424 or similar 4 track cassette machine
Tascam 488 or 688 8 track cassette machine
Tascam 388 8 track 1/4" reel to reel


None of those will cost you "serious" money up front (except maybe the 388, because it is somewhat trendy and desirable) or for tape, and are completely self contained?so all you really need to do is plug in a microphone and some speakers or headphones and start recording?without buying an external mixer and the snakes of cabling to go with it. You also of course want to do some research and get yourself all of the tape machine owner necessities?cleaning swaps, head cleaner, rubber cleaner, han-d-mag? None of these machines will sound like a larger format reel to reel like a 2" machine?but they do sound cool and are fun toys to have IMHO?I own a 688 and a few 388s and they get used a lot despite having access to great digital recording systems and 2" machines.

The Tascam 488 or 688 would be especially useful because its reasonably portable (the 388 is portable too?but its at least twice the size and much heavier?) so you can take it to band's practice spaces easily, while still having more than enough tracks to make a band work if you are creative with it.

[Eggmann]

I recorded many many records on ADAT machines (3 sync'd together) and never had a bit of trouble. Never! I took care of the machines, kept them clean, and only used top quality tape. They sounded way better that 4 track cassettes. Really...

I've moved on but I gotta say I used them every day for nearly 10 years and still have a soft spot for them.

[Snarl 12/8]

What is it about tape that has you "VERY" interested? The sound? The limitation? The mystique? There's so many ways to record to tape, I think we need to better know your motivation to guide you to the "right" way for you.

ADAT and the MX2424 (I have one) aren't either exactly "tape." The ADAT uses tape to record digitally and the MX2424 will give you a digital version of an analog workflow (if you set it up and use it that way), but I don't think most people in this biz would suggest either if someone came to them and said they wanted to do tape.

I gotta fun prank you could pull on your teacher. Go out and rent a crane and some thin, but strong cables and a safety harness. You'll need a crane operator and a friend that can keep a straight face to help you. Get a deck for a skateboard and paint it all crazy shiny colors. Put some tubes on the sides with smoke bombs in them so it looks like it's got rockets on it and glue it to your most futuristic looking boots. Then hang from the crane with a plastic flower pot on your head (a la Devo) and the crazy "flying hover-board" on your feet outside his window. Have the crane swing you past the window of his office while you have a friend in the office go, "look, dude, it's 2014!" whilst pointing at you through the glass.

[Sammigz]

I would say its the sound that im going after.

I want to get that nice warm tape sound. Basically i am starting to record bands in my area. Not many studios are doing tape in our area anymore so everything recorded here is digital. A LOT of digital only studios. So i was hoping to get into tape to have something that kind of sets me apart from the other studios.

Ive always heard recording to tape is a whole world of a difference (as far as warm sounding etc). When i was young my friends and i always used 4-track cassette recorders to record stuff. But im not so sure this is the same thing im looking for. Im looking for a nice warm and clean sounding tape. Every time we recorded with the 4-track cassette, it always sounded like crap.

[Snarl 12/8]

When I was a kid I wanted to buy a 4 track and I convinced my dad to let me get one. He asked the lead singer for my band, who'd interned in 24 track studios and stuff what the best 4 track was and my singer, without missing a beat, said "an 8-track." So, I wound up with a Fostex 8-track reel to reel. That's 1/4" for 8-tracks, so, aside from faster tape speed, it's the same "resolution" as a cassette 4-track, pretty much. I just got another one a few months ago, and I'm not blown away by the fidelity, compared to digital. So, I'd say you want either a 1/2" (or better) 8-track or a 1 or 2" 16 or 24 track. As you've experienced, tape can kinda sound like crap until you get into the really good, expensive, hard to maintain shit.

From what I've heard though, some bands are keen to go analog until they see how much tape costs and that there's no recall, and that you can't record as many tracks as you want, etc., etc. I'm not sure it's gonna be the draw you think it is. My bet is that a pro-tools HD system with some righteous plugins, a good mic locker and a couple boutique preamps and compressors would pay off faster in terms of client draw than anything else. I haven't tried to make money off recording in decades though, so this is hearsay. The biggest draw though, honestly is probably previous, happy clients, no matter how they were recorded.

[drumsound]

I would say its the sound that im going after.

I want to get that nice warm tape sound. Basically i am starting to record bands in my area. Not many studios are doing tape in our area anymore so everything recorded here is digital. A LOT of digital only studios. So i was hoping to get into tape to have something that kind of sets me apart from the other studios.

Ive always heard recording to tape is a whole world of a difference (as far as warm sounding etc). When i was young my friends and i always used 4-track cassette recorders to record stuff. But im not so sure this is the same thing im looking for. Im looking for a nice warm and clean sounding tape. Every time we recorded with the 4-track cassette, it always sounded like crap.

As mentioned, an ADAT is NOT going to give you ANY of that. They are 16 or 20 bit digital recorders with 48k max sampling rate. The only part of a classic tape recording that ADAT will give you is in workflow. You'll still have to rewind, punch-ins are destructive and need to be done at the right moment. You can run out of tracks, you need a console and outboard etc.

I don't doubt that your Presonus unit sounds as good or, probably better than any generation of ADAT.

Find an 8 or 16 track narrow format machine and get to know the tape world that way. Or splurge and get a 2" machine, the prices are pretty stupid these days.

[kslight]

Every time we recorded with the 4-track cassette, it always sounded like crap.

All the more reason to evaluate it again and use your new education to rethink your past techniques? I'm not saying that a 4 track or 8 track is ever going to sound "great," but used sensibly they are capable of a lot more than just crap.

A really "good" sounding "clean" tape machine type of thing that is worth owning is going to cost some serious bank just to get up and running, you aren't likely to find anything of that sort in the ambiguous "student" budget and certainly it would take even more above the machine costs to make it useful (recording space, mixer, cabling, tape, etc)?

I am a huge fan of working analog, but from a business perspective you may want to do some digging and figure out why the local studios have gone digital. My experience with average clients is that while working with tape is "cool" in practice they don't have any more available budget versus the clients that don't care, and get cold feet when they realize what kind of limitations they are up against. I still like to track to basics, but for me, few projects stay on tape much past that step due to time/budget constraints. In fact, I do a lot of work at an all analog studio and have to haul in my digital rig, ironically.

[Teacher's Pet]

This guy made a record with an 8-track cassette deck and it does not sound "crappy" at all.

No offense but I think taking the plunge on a 2" machine at this stage is not the right move.

It's a little like "I'm interested in learning how to fly, should I buy a 747?"

Of course, if you have too much cash and it's cluttering up your enormous studio space, then go for it...

I think a very modest investment could allow you to get your feet wet, learn stuff, and then decide whether you want to go deeper.

It sounds like your studio business could benefit from experimenting with digital-analog hybrid workflows. Develop your own ways of combining both methods.

[Nick Sevilla]

If you then can get a good sound out of this machine, then get a better one.

Cheers

[Jeff White]

Grab a Tascam 38, or TSR-8, plus a small mixer like a Mackie Onyx (affordable, good preamps, 16-channels at least), and have at it. Looking at like a $1200 investment. Tape will be 1/2" and end up a bit pricey, but it will sound better than a Tascam 424 4-track (which you could also get for like under $200). The cool thing about the Tascam 1/2" 8-track decks is that you can always track THROUGH THEM, getting the sound of the tape and using the repro heads to bring the sound and vibe of the deck into your computer immediately. Best of both worlds. You'll be limited to tracking 8 channels at a time simultaneously this way, but you can always submix down the drums live, and overdub however you want. This also will allow you to get more out of your tape stock. You'll be using the deck as an effect; you can slam the tape hard for drums and

I have spent years putting together a nice digital home studio, and I am planning on working this way with a Tascam 38 starting this summer.

Jeff