Mixer like this?

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calaverasgrandes
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Mixer like this?

Post by calaverasgrandes » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:42 pm

So I am trying to find a mixer or summing box that can do a couple things that I consider straight forward, but I have not been able to find?
Basically I just want a high density line mixer.
Like 16 or 24 inputs in one or two rack spaces.
I do need direct outs.
I do want a bit of gain, and pan/balance would be nice.
Finally, why not all connections on DB25?

I don't want a dozen aux sends, EQ, mic pres or AD/DA conversion.
I dont want a boat of a desk that takes up all my space.
I dont want busses and groups.

It seems like the SSL X desk is the only one that comes close, but it is actually larger than I would like, costs too much, and has features I don't think I'd really use. Looks like I should have bought one or two of those SSL Xpandas when they were on sale. Dang...
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:46 am

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Post by Nick Sevilla » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:47 am

Really, you want a console. Because of the direct outputs.

http://www.allen-heath.com/series/gl/
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calaverasgrandes
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Post by calaverasgrandes » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:09 am

those are nice choices and all, but I really dont have the space for full desk. about the biggest I can manage would be a Mackie 1604 or an A&H Mixwiz.
I'm kind of surprised there arent any mixers such as I am picturing.
Basically I just want to be able to sum sources to a stereo monitor mix, before they go to the inputs of my DAW. I also need to be able to pull up a few sources in terms of gain as well as pad down a few. For those reasons the summing mixers all basically do not work for me. The SSL Xdesk
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XDesk
looks just about perfect, except it costs a fair bit, and they have discontinued the xpanda. Hardly a dealbreaker, but a shame.
As far as digital mixers, I actually already have the ability to do DSP mixing in my soundcard, however it ends up creating a phase issue when I combine dsp mixed and non dsp mixed elements when monitoring, due to the converter delay. That and I am trying to get some analog summing going on.

I may end up just getting several of these
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MX508/
and chaining them from rack to rack. Though I wanted to avoid inline EQ.

Or there is this, but I am kind of unclear how 16 channels have inserts on one DB25?
http://vintageking.com/recording-gear/c ... ming-mixer
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Post by drumsound » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:17 am

I don't think the Speck is much bigger than the 1604 or Mix Wiz. Speaking of the Mix Wiz, they do sound really good for something that size and price. I doubt a used one would kill you on price.

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Post by JWL » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:03 am

It sounds like you basically just want a summing mixer, to your I/O specs (db25, direct outs each channel, etc). Passive summing mixers are very simple and easy to DIY.... the most expensive part will likely be the connectors you want, and then of course a preamp to get the levels back up on the outputs. I don't know if you are into DIY or not, but this might help:

http://www.diyrecordingequipment.com/42 ... mming-box/

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Post by calaverasgrandes » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:13 pm

I'd surely DIY a passive summing bus before I'd buy one. I'm thinking of doing that anyway for the outputs from my DAW.
My workflow goal for a mixer is to have all my drum machines, synths and modular stuff plugged in. That is why I need a bit of gain on some of the inputs. Most synths I own are in that lame no mans land between line level and guitar level. (I've actually read product literature from the 80's that talks about -20db output level as if it was one of the better features of the product!)

DIYing a summing bus that has splits or direct outs is kind of beyond my limited abilities. I have added direct outs to a couple mixers, but I always did that by stealing a aux send or destroying the LR buss. I guess I could do something similar with a crapton of 1:1 transformers.
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Post by rhythm ranch » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:39 pm

I don't think they had direct outs, but what about something like the old Roland M-240R or Roland M-480 rack mixers.

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Post by calaverasgrandes » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:37 pm

rhythm ranch wrote:I don't think they had direct outs, but what about something like the old Roland M-240R or Roland M-480 rack mixers.
wow wasnt aware that such huge amount of inputs were available on keyboard mixers. Those don't fit my needs very well though. No direct outputs and a superfluous number of auxes.
So far the Ashly MX508 is looking the best pricewise, the SSL X Desk the best overall.
I like the Ashly as it has facilities to link multiple mixers, and they are pretty well regarded for fidelity.
Quite a bit more than the MX508 is this JDK/API mixer/pre.
I like that it has explicit direct outs and line ins. As well as a cue and a 2 mix.
I do not like that there is no ADDA upgrade available. Also I'd much rather have HPFs or impedance switches than dynamics per channel. The ability to cascade is nice as well. However the only real benefit over the MX508 is 1RU over 3RU, and JDK/API branding vs Ashly. Though for that price ($2700), again the Xdesk looks like a better fit.
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Post by calaverasgrandes » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:14 pm

not trying to brazenly bump my own thread, but seeing as I am coming down to Ashly MX508 and the SSL X desk, can anyone comment that has used either or both?
I guess aside from the features I've described I'd put out there that I am generally a fan of warmer sounding gear than clean/pristine gear. I like accurate and solid sounding stuff, so long as it isn't specs for specs sake and actually SOUNDS good.

I always go back to the example of Mackie mixers. The swept through sound engineering in the early 90's because they had great specs and were built fairly well. They also had a very good layout and were tiny compared to Soundcraft and Ramsa mixers we were using.
By the mid to late 90's we were all pretty fed up with the pinched lifeless sound of Mackies and went crying back to our Soundcrafts, Studiomasters, Yamahas and Ramsas with all their noise... and character.
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Post by The Scum » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:23 pm

One thing occurs to me:

Consider something with mic preamps.

Not because you really need them, but because it's really rare to find a mixer with direct outputs that doesn't also have mic preamps. Direct outs are usually included as a feature when you'd want to tap the preamp output for recording.

If you're in the ballpark of the SSL or JDK stuff, maybe you're in the neighborhood of the Radial Workhorse, also?
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Post by calaverasgrandes » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:43 pm

yeah I'm eyeballing that Radial as well. However that could easily snowball into way too much money.

As far as mic pres, there are a dozen mixers from A&H, Soundcraft, Mackie etc that fit that description. But they are also bigger than I'd like as well.
I'm just trying to nail down my rig to be exactly what I want and nothing that I don't.
Honestly I could just buy another MOTU unit and have enough ins to hear everything through its 'cuemix'. But I've never liked how that sounds. It seems to have a bit too much latency and is not terribly fat sounding.
??????? wrote: "everything sounds best right before it blows up."

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Post by LupineSound » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:28 am

calaverasgrandes wrote: Or there is this, but I am kind of unclear how 16 channels have inserts on one DB25?
http://vintageking.com/recording-gear/c ... ming-mixer
I'm in a similar boat. I think that 8816 fits the bill. 16 channels, small footprint, DB-25. And to answer your question, the inserts have their own DB-25. See http://lghttp.17114.nexcesscdn.net/8087 ... 8816_4.jpg

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Post by calaverasgrandes » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:17 am

apparently the fader box adds direct outs.
I suppose it is not too expensive given the features. Still it might take me a bit to get the money together.
(come on demo unit!)
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Post by Jim Williams » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:59 am

The Scum wrote:One thing occurs to me:

Consider something with mic preamps.

Not because you really need them, but because it's really rare to find a mixer with direct outputs that doesn't also have mic preamps.
Examine the schematics first. Most low/mid range consoles have the line inputs fed into the mic preamps with a -20 db pad to control the levels. You mix through mic preamps and unecessary gain/attenuation.

Usually if you see one input trim knob and a switch for mic/line that is the case. Soundcraft Delta and Venue are an exception, those used a dual pot, 1/2 for the pre, 1/2 for the line in gain.
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