reducing bleed on a singer/guitar player

[blungo2]

Hi.
I've been recording a folk artist who has a very powerful voice. Her guitar playing on the other hand, is not very loud.

Been getting a lot of vocal bleed into the guitar mic and some of it sounds horrible. I was thinking of using a ribbon on the guitar and aiming the null at her mouth, but i didn't think the sound would be right.

I just read about using an omni near the lower bout of the guitar to reduce vocal bleed has anyone tried that.

She's not into multi tracking, so that's not an option.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

[rhythm ranch]

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=71824
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=80900

[JWL]

We did a video that shows a good technique for this. I love using ribbons on acoustic guitars in general, particularly for a singer/songwriter playing and singing at the same time.

http://www.realtraps.com/video_recording.htm

[Recycled_Brains]

2 fig. 8 mics is definitely a good way to go. I did a record last year where I used a Neuman KM86 in fig. 8 for the guitar with the null pointed at singer's mouth, and a Charter Oak 538 in fig. 8 with the null pointed at the guitar. Worked great. I think I will do better next time. There was still just enough vocal bleed in the guitar mic that created a scenario where I could only get the guitar so loud before it was detrimental to the midrange on the vocals, but luckily it was a good mix overall, so it didn't pose any sort of big problem. There was shockingly little bleed in either mic though. Esp. the vocal mic. Could barely hear any guitar at all. I was impressed. I just know I can do better with placement next time.

[floid]

i've sort of developed my own single mic method in which the mic is lower than the guitar, pointing up across it at vox. takes some placement tweaks and tailoring of performance to get a good balance, and yr obviously stuck with the mix you get...

[blungo2]

Thanks for all the replies! They've been very helpful. Gonna try ribbons on the guitar next time, if that doesn't work for me, i have some condensors that do figure 8.
Thanks again!

[banana brains]

I love the focused sound from a single mic on simultaneous vocals and acoustic guitar. If you have a good room you can back the mic away a bit, if not I have had the most luck with the mic out about 12 - 18 inches pointed at the throat/chest area depending on the player/singer.

Dead simple and no phase issues to worry about plus not much thinking when your done. You get what you get.

[blungo2]

Sounds interesting! I think though, that I may be too addicted to setting separate level, eq, compression , reverb and delay for guitar and vocals for it to work well for me,

[vvv]

Everytime I read the thread title I think of tourniquets and band-aids.

Which mebbe should be the name of a band ...

[roscoenyc]

I've had some hyper cardiods that I've used for a long time for this but I
was doing some song maps with a friend at home with a ribbon and was astounded at the rejection at the null.

We talk about figure 8 a lot but I actually wasn't using it that much. Last 2 weeks I've used it to fantastic advantage on ribbons and condensers.

[blungo2]

Def going to try a ribbon on the guitar next time. I have to keep telling myself that i have condensors that do figure eight, somehow i never remember to utilize them that way, doh!

And i get really pissed when musicians bleed on my mics!

[dino]

Got the ribbon on the guitar with the null pointed at my face. Got the null of the condenser pointed at the guitar. It's working pretty good. As soon as I play the harp I seem to lose the separation. It's probably a room issue now but I'm continuing to experiment. Do you fine folks have any favorite ways to record a neck worn harmonica along with the voice and guitar?
Just wondering...dino