Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

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Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by vvv » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:01 pm

So, I'm using a second mic (Shinybox 23L) about 9' out inna 15' depth room (small, say 18' wide) on my guitar amps. (Close mic is like a Trion ribbon, or a EV609, a SM57, a old AKG ... mebbe 3-9" off-center, sometimes toed.)

Somehow, I'm liking it better off-panned mebbe 25% on the clock face instead of opposite; can't seem to get a delay time right to add to the back mic to get it more stereo, vs. delayed. (IOW, 9:00 and 6:00 are good, 9:00 and 3:00 aren't as good.)

Anyone have a tip to maximise the stereo effect here?
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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by losthighway » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:16 pm

How reflective is the room?

You might want to point it at a corner, or the ceiling, or a wall instead of the source.

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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:40 am

Also, try pointing the amp at the wall or at least away from the room mic. Baffle the back if it’s an open cab. Basically aiming to have the sound bounce off of an extra surface or two before hitting the room mic.
With ribbons as room mics I like to aim the mic so the source is in the null. You’ll get a bit less direct sound and more room. That said it gets trickier in a small room.

In my younger years I often played with processing the close mic and ribbon room as a mid side pair. It was hit and miss but sometimes worked really well.

The other trick is to put the room mic in the next room and open the door a crack. It often works beautifully on drums.

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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by drumsound » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:32 pm

Sometimes its cool to pan those two mics away from each other AND add some sort of reverb delay panned opposite of the mics. So the close mic is panned off to the left and its artificial ambience is panned right, then the room mic is panned right and its ambience is panned left.
Obviously it won't work in every production, but it is a thing that can sometimes be the thing.

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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by losthighway » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:05 pm

drumsound wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:32 pm
Sometimes its cool to pan those two mics away from each other AND add some sort of reverb delay panned opposite of the mics. So the close mic is panned off to the left and its artificial ambience is panned right, then the room mic is panned right and its ambience is panned left.
Obviously it won't work in every production, but it is a thing that can sometimes be the thing.
Yeah this kind of fits into my philosophy of blending authentic reverberation with modeled reverberation. My favorite room sounds from drums lately have been the drum tracks (more close mics, less overheads), with a pinch of digital 'medium room' reverb, played through the PA in the live room, captured by an x/y pair pointing away from the speakers. It's a little rough sounding solo'd but in the mix it just sounds like my room, but bigger, with way more control over cymbal bleed.

But I digress, you mentioned not loving what adding delay to the room mic was doing, so maybe a blend of that room mic with a medium/short reverb with some predelay as kind of a cascade of subtle echoes as opposed to a 'slap off the wall' sound.

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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by drumsound » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:26 pm

Reamping reverb. Cool.

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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by digitaldrummer » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:29 am

A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:40 am
With ribbons as room mics I like to aim the mic so the source is in the null.
yes- let the Figure8 capture the reflection off the adjacent walls. a little compression then maybe... if i want more stereo effect from that mono track i would use the SoundToys microshift plugin (at <100% mix or it can be a little too much)

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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by I'm Painting Again » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:23 pm

I've been playing with a live active artificial reverb using a digital delay and energizing the front wall with a PA with a mic pointing at the back wall

i call it a time warp

anyway I noticed how volume at a particular frequency and relative phase of two sound sources and or pickups in a room are extremely interactive in terms of perception

the first thing I'd do would be to make sure my speakers are precisely volume (and frequency) matched and there's nothing in the monitoring field casting an acoustic shadow and all the first reflections are truly taken care of - maybe this is obvious - it's good to check - those things can drift especially the loudspeaker levels - if you have that it'll be much easier to not be tricked when you're panning

I'm sure you checked on headphones and it's all good but it's worth stating for the community

I'm a lil unclear to what you're doing because of the wording but it doesn't sound like you're using a stereo technique so ?? mebbe put a stereo pair up or do an M/S ??

without a control room and assistant it's usually easier to get a good mono close sound and then reamp into your room or chamber it using a stereo pair in a tried technique after the fact

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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by vvv » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:30 pm

Some great idears, guys!

Been mixing all day so just got here. And that's tunes, not cocktails ... :twisted:

My set-up, to clarifry, is like this:

Room= 12' x 18'
____________________________________



A
M . . . . . Trion . . . . . . . . Shinybox . . . .|
P



_____________________________________

OT - wartching the news reports of a mall shooting about a mile away, 1 dead, 1 wounded. :cry:
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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by I'm Painting Again » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:05 pm

ok yea?

and what is it supposed to sound like? What kind of style / song ? just the way the amp sounds in the room?

sounds like you want stereo but you're not recording it in stereo for some reason

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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by vvv » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:06 am

Music is linked in my posts but essentially rock.

Correct, I don' want just stereo, I want the room depth, also, but using only two mic's.

I think I have received some good tips above. 8)
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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by I'm Painting Again » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:08 am

very cool music and presentation - love it

try putting the amp 38% into the room off the short wall with a gobo behind it -

set up the trion as normal and put the SB at a 45 degree angle to the trion behind the gobo - compress the SB to bring up the room



____________________________________
..................38% of room length
...................v
.............||
......\...... G....A
.......S.....O....M ... Trion . . . . . . . . . . . .|
........B....B....P
..........\...O
..............||

_____________________________________

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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by vvv » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:16 am

8) (love the graffic!)

I got many things to try; what a great forum!
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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by roscoenyc » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:06 am

The Shinybox is Fig 8.
Point the side of the mic at the amp to get more room. (not the front or back)

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Re: Maximizing room mic effect (amps)

Post by vvv » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:11 am

So is the Trion. :)

But yep, sometimes the obvious just escapes me.

Reminds me of when I first met my ex ... :twisted:

I'll try and post a pic later, for shites&giggles.

Edit: of the room, not my ex.
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