Those who actually think Bush is a good president..

[Piotr]

Or this...


http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/91/36 ... andal.html

[ottokbre]

yay! someone else reads Pravda!

Leave it to former soviets to cut through propaganda!

[graveleye]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer

Sensible fiscal policy. Isn't there another name for Rich? Oh yeah...Dick!!!

You calling me a dick?

[ottokbre]

all you ever really need to know about this administration and how it ACTUALLY works (not just it's affects) is here

[dennis]

I kinda like Bush and I kinda don't. To me you can't compare Presidents to eachother because the social and political environments always seem to change enough where nobody has equal opportunity to prove themselves.
IN a country that is so divided down the middle, there are going to be alot of unhappy people no matter what.


For instance...
I like enviromentalism, but I don't think it should be so radical that entire cities fall off the map... I think national security is important, but not at the expense of becoming a facist governement. I think people who can't work should be homeless because of a disability, but I don't think lazy people should get a free ride... I think that women need to have options when their health is at risk because of pregnancy, but I don't think doctors should be allowed to terminate a babies life after the baby is partially born by puncturing the babies skull. I don't thinks gays should be allowed to marry, but I don't think they should be denied benefits or tax relief.
I thought going to war was a good idea because of Saddams track record and oppression of "his" people, but I don't like the idea of how long its going to take to finish the job. The list goes on but the two party system swings in opposite directions and there is no real compromising. I couldn't vote last time with a clear conscience.. I wasn't happy with the choices and I'd feel guilty voting for Evil 1 verses Evil 1.2 My opinons change as well so While I voted for Clinton once, I didn't the second time. Right now I don't see any politician worth voting for. Unless some independant person pops into the race that is truely fair and balanced I probably won't vote. I may picket the Polls that day.

Just how I feel.... today...might be different tomorrow.

Peace,
Dennis

[kcrusher]

I like Bush. I trust him much more than those other nine guys. They seem very whiney, angry and bitter to me. They call people names too much. The left in general seems very emotionally hateful and judgmental to me. They want the job too much. They want to take more of my money. They hate the rich (unless of course you're rich like Barbra Streisand, or some other hollywood lefty). I dunno.. I have never worked for a poor person before, but I bet the benefits arent as good as my rich boss provides. And besides, why should I want to punish high achieving "evil" rich people. I want to be rich too.
As far as Iraq and Afghanistan, he did the right thing, and I stand by that. I get a lttle leary of the Patriot act, but remember its Bill and Hillary that have also tried shit like the national ID card etc...all those friggin polititians would like to drag us into the arms of Big Brother. Thats not a right-wing exclusive.

Bush has my vote but if he continues to spend like a liberal, and pander to the left, I will look for another person to vote for.
If only the Libertarians had a chance....

My questions:

1. Why do you trust him more than 'the other 9 guys'?
2. Why do you think they want to take more of your money?
3. What makes you think they hate the rich?
4. Why do you think he did the right thing in Afghanistan and Iraq?
5. Why are you only a 'little' leery of the Patriot Act? You DO know it undermines our rights as laid out in the Constitution, whereas Clintons National ID program did not.

[Piotr]

No, just rich people...anyways, what are you some kind of nut? Gonna make me pay??

But luckily:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/993115.asp?0dm=C1ANB

[graveleye]

I like Bush. I trust him much more than those other nine guys. They seem very whiney, angry and bitter to me. They call people names too much. The left in general seems very emotionally hateful and judgmental to me. They want the job too much. They want to take more of my money. They hate the rich (unless of course you're rich like Barbra Streisand, or some other hollywood lefty). I dunno.. I have never worked for a poor person before, but I bet the benefits arent as good as my rich boss provides. And besides, why should I want to punish high achieving "evil" rich people. I want to be rich too.
As far as Iraq and Afghanistan, he did the right thing, and I stand by that. I get a lttle leary of the Patriot act, but remember its Bill and Hillary that have also tried shit like the national ID card etc...all those friggin polititians would like to drag us into the arms of Big Brother. Thats not a right-wing exclusive.

Bush has my vote but if he continues to spend like a liberal, and pander to the left, I will look for another person to vote for.
If only the Libertarians had a chance....

My questions:

1. Why do you trust him more than 'the other 9 guys'?
2. Why do you think they want to take more of your money?
3. What makes you think they hate the rich?
4. Why do you think he did the right thing in Afghanistan and Iraq?
5. Why are you only a 'little' leery of the Patriot Act? You DO know it undermines our rights as laid out in the Constitution, whereas Clintons National ID program did not.

#1 - The niave 9 have no platform. They lie. They have been caught in a bunch of them... uh oh... here comes the "well Bush lied" mantra... thats ok. These guys have made a pretty good habit of flip-flopping on almost every issue. Dude I dont have time to spell it all out here, and really am not in the mood for it. But just look at a simple issue "Bush's economy sucks. Bush caused the recession" NOT. Sorry, the recession started during the Clinton years, Bush inherited it... and to the dismay of the dem candidates, the economy is getting better... I truly believe that there are democrats out there who would really like to see the economy tank so they could make Bush look bad. Listen to the way they talk...its quite apparent they are NOT happy with this record economic turn-around.
#2 - EACH of the candidates wants to raise taxes. No secret there. Just listen to them.
#3 - the Main people they want to raise taxes on is the rich. The rich are already paying most of the taxes anyway but they want more. They insitgate "class warfare" preying on less wealthy peoples worst natural instinct to envy wealthy people to the point.
#4 - Uh Hello? Was your head up your ass on 9-11-2001? Both Iraq and Afghanistan are lucky that I was not president then.
#5 - Nope... I dont like the Patriot Act anymore than you do. But the point I was trying to make was that neither party has a corner on wanting to thwart our privacy rights. Clinton tried to pass a bill that would have opened up our bank records to anyone who would have wanted to look at them...FBI, IRS CIA... without warrents. It was called the "Know Your Customer Act" or something like that. Not something I am for... A good old democrat from Georgia named Max Cleland LOVED the idea... luckily it didnt go through, but some of it did. Right now if you deposit $10,000 in your bank (like evil rich folks do) then they must report that. If you are stopped for whatever reason with $10,000 in your wallet in cash, they can take it from you... no questions asked. Allllll polititians seem to want to erode our rights away...a good reason to look into the libertarian party..

Dude... I am not a republican... I am obviously not a democrat. I am a libertarian. I lean conservative. I happen to stand closely with the republicans because I think they are less destructive to our country. I honestly wish that the libertarians could come up with an electable candidate, but I will settle for the closest thing I can find.
I hope I answered your questions...
I am truly all pissed out now. Beers on me... we can disagree but at the end of the day we are still homeys, so lets chill..
shouldnt we be reocrding some music??? lol

[DUC]

#4 - Uh Hello? Was your head up your ass on 9-11-2001? Both Iraq and Afghanistan are lucky that I was not president then.

I just know that Hitler created terrorism in Germany to take full control over the country. Totalitarian fascist. Hitler would have killed for a 9/11. Ha!

Does that mean Bush did? I don't know. But I'm not throwing around 9/11 as a license to rape, rob, and plunder.

[ottokbre]

#4 - Uh Hello? Was your head up your ass on 9-11-2001? Both Iraq and Afghanistan are lucky that I was not president then.

must of been, 'cus i don't see where Iraq and 9/11 connect. Do you know something I don't know?

[wayne kerr]

because of him, mexico lost 2/3 of its territory!

Yeah, but we got stuck with Hollywood out ofthe deal, so I think Mexico won that one

CCPP

[phat-ass]

I like Bush. I trust him much more than those other nine guys. They seem very whiney, angry and bitter to me. They call people names too much. The left in general seems very emotionally hateful and judgmental to me. They want the job too much. They want to take more of my money. They hate the rich (unless of course you're rich like Barbra Streisand, or some other hollywood lefty). I dunno.. I have never worked for a poor person before, but I bet the benefits arent as good as my rich boss provides. And besides, why should I want to punish high achieving "evil" rich people. I want to be rich too.
As far as Iraq and Afghanistan, he did the right thing, and I stand by that. I get a lttle leary of the Patriot act, but remember its Bill and Hillary that have also tried shit like the national ID card etc...all those friggin polititians would like to drag us into the arms of Big Brother. Thats not a right-wing exclusive.

Bush has my vote but if he continues to spend like a liberal, and pander to the left, I will look for another person to vote for.
If only the Libertarians had a chance....

My questions:

1. Why do you trust him more than 'the other 9 guys'?
2. Why do you think they want to take more of your money?
3. What makes you think they hate the rich?
4. Why do you think he did the right thing in Afghanistan and Iraq?
5. Why are you only a 'little' leery of the Patriot Act? You DO know it undermines our rights as laid out in the Constitution, whereas Clintons National ID program did not.

#1 - The niave 9 have no platform. They lie. They have been caught in a bunch of them... uh oh... here comes the "well Bush lied" mantra... thats ok. These guys have made a pretty good habit of flip-flopping on almost every issue. Dude I dont have time to spell it all out here, and really am not in the mood for it. But just look at a simple issue "Bush's economy sucks. Bush caused the recession" NOT. Sorry, the recession started during the Clinton years, Bush inherited it... and to the dismay of the dem candidates, the economy is getting better... I truly believe that there are democrats out there who would really like to see the economy tank so they could make Bush look bad. Listen to the way they talk...its quite apparent they are NOT happy with this record economic turn-around.
#2 - EACH of the candidates wants to raise taxes. No secret there. Just listen to them.
#3 - the Main people they want to raise taxes on is the rich. The rich are already paying most of the taxes anyway but they want more. They insitgate "class warfare" preying on less wealthy peoples worst natural instinct to envy wealthy people to the point.
#4 - Uh Hello? Was your head up your ass on 9-11-2001? Both Iraq and Afghanistan are lucky that I was not president then.
#5 - Nope... I dont like the Patriot Act anymore than you do. But the point I was trying to make was that neither party has a corner on wanting to thwart our privacy rights. Clinton tried to pass a bill that would have opened up our bank records to anyone who would have wanted to look at them...FBI, IRS CIA... without warrents. It was called the "Know Your Customer Act" or something like that. Not something I am for... A good old democrat from Georgia named Max Cleland LOVED the idea... luckily it didnt go through, but some of it did. Right now if you deposit $10,000 in your bank (like evil rich folks do) then they must report that. If you are stopped for whatever reason with $10,000 in your wallet in cash, they can take it from you... no questions asked. Allllll polititians seem to want to erode our rights away...a good reason to look into the libertarian party..

Dude... I am not a republican... I am obviously not a democrat. I am a libertarian. I lean conservative. I happen to stand closely with the republicans because I think they are less destructive to our country. I honestly wish that the libertarians could come up with an electable candidate, but I will settle for the closest thing I can find.
I hope I answered your questions...
I am truly all pissed out now. Beers on me... we can disagree but at the end of the day we are still homeys, so lets chill..
shouldnt we be reocrding some music??? lol

#1: Here are some links for platforms, (and don't forget they are running for the Democratic nomination, which has a platform):

http://www.carolforpresident.com/conten ... rtherecord

http://clark04.com/issues/

http://www.deanforamerica.com/#

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/home.asp

http://www.dickgephardt2004.com/plugin/ ... phardt/13/*

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

http://www.kucinich.us/issues.htm

http://www.joe2004.com/site/PageServer? ... me=ii_home

http://www.al2004.org/platform.htm

If you think none of these people have platforms you haven't been doing your homework, or you've been watching FoxNews.

#2: Yes, each of them want to raise taxes. Or at least get the tax rates back to where they were before Bush got into office. If you think this country can survive without taxes, well then, you're a true libertarian. If, however you think we need some form of taxes, then a sane tax system is needed. Bush's fiscal policies are far from sane. Read anything from Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman. (plus various other economists)

#3: How is it that the conservatives in this country always cry "class warfare" when the people who run things like Enron are the ones who started this so-called class war.

#4: Must be watching FoxNews again.

#5: Conservatives always insist on bringing up Clinton when discussing Bush. We're not talking about Clinton. He's not president anymore. He never will be again! We're talking about Bush. We're talking about The Patriot Act, which was signed by Bush! We're talking about The Patriot Act II which is being drafted by Bush's administration. They have other legislation in the works that should make any Libertarian scream bloody murder, such as insisting that local police inforce immigration law.

It's naive to think that people who run industries such as the power industry and banking and chemical industries are going to police themselves. A slavish, almost religious adherence to free-market capitalism is naivete at one of it's most outrageous extremes. It's naive to think that a group of people who are members of organizations such as Project for the New American Century have a grasp of the problems facing American foreign policy.


phat-ass

[hyphen nation]

greetings, I am a newbie here, been reading recording threads here for months...I think some of you are over on the univalve.net...

I am curious about this thread though...out of all the people I know, figure a few hundred friends, family, co-workers, aquaintances, etc, 2 people who actually like bush, one extraordinarily rich, and the other is old.

the rich guy has been a republican for ever, and I think it is more of a party stance, as he even says this last tax break will help no one but those in the top tax bracket...

this leads me to two theories,

one, being an artist, I really am finally completely out of touch with the rest of society to such a degree, that I am not really sure I know how to remedy this...

two, the people who are constantly being polled, and saying they "approve' of him, or are writing letters into the paper are actually a minority...I have never been called with a survey about the current state of the gov't...

[kcrusher]

#1 - The niave 9 have no platform. They lie. They have been caught in a bunch of them... uh oh... here comes the "well Bush lied" mantra... thats ok. These guys have made a pretty good habit of flip-flopping on almost every issue. Dude I dont have time to spell it all out here, and really am not in the mood for it. But just look at a simple issue "Bush's economy sucks. Bush caused the recession" NOT. Sorry, the recession started during the Clinton years, Bush inherited it... and to the dismay of the dem candidates, the economy is getting better... I truly believe that there are democrats out there who would really like to see the economy tank so they could make Bush look bad. Listen to the way they talk...its quite apparent they are NOT happy with this record economic turn-around.
#2 - EACH of the candidates wants to raise taxes. No secret there. Just listen to them.
#3 - the Main people they want to raise taxes on is the rich. The rich are already paying most of the taxes anyway but they want more. They insitgate "class warfare" preying on less wealthy peoples worst natural instinct to envy wealthy people to the point.
#4 - Uh Hello? Was your head up your ass on 9-11-2001? Both Iraq and Afghanistan are lucky that I was not president then.
#5 - Nope... I dont like the Patriot Act anymore than you do. But the point I was trying to make was that neither party has a corner on wanting to thwart our privacy rights. Clinton tried to pass a bill that would have opened up our bank records to anyone who would have wanted to look at them...FBI, IRS CIA... without warrents. It was called the "Know Your Customer Act" or something like that. Not something I am for... A good old democrat from Georgia named Max Cleland LOVED the idea... luckily it didnt go through, but some of it did. Right now if you deposit $10,000 in your bank (like evil rich folks do) then they must report that. If you are stopped for whatever reason with $10,000 in your wallet in cash, they can take it from you... no questions asked. Allllll polititians seem to want to erode our rights away...a good reason to look into the libertarian party..

Dude... I am not a republican... I am obviously not a democrat. I am a libertarian. I lean conservative. I happen to stand closely with the republicans because I think they are less destructive to our country. I honestly wish that the libertarians could come up with an electable candidate, but I will settle for the closest thing I can find.
I hope I answered your questions...
I am truly all pissed out now. Beers on me... we can disagree but at the end of the day we are still homeys, so lets chill..
shouldnt we be reocrding some music??? lol

#1 - They DO have 'platforms'. See links provided above. The question I ask is - what 'platform' is Bush running on? Lies? Deceit? Bilking the public to pad the pockets of his cronies? Appointing extremist judges? Blocking inquiries of the 9/11 investigation panel? Resurrecting nuclear weapons testing?

#2 - The other candidates don't necessarily want to RAISE taxes, they just want to return them to the levels needed to sustain the services the government provides. If you look at Howard Dean's record in Vermont, you'll see that they have the most fiscally responsible and robust economy of any state. If he can do the same for the U.S., I think we're all better off. The other thing about 'raising taxes' is that you're going to pay for it somewhere - all states get funded by the federal gov't, which is why so many of the states are struggling now. That 'tax cut' by Bush wasn't really a tax cut, since you're going to pay more for services and tax increases by the state to cover what they normally get from the fed. gov't. Here in CA, they just increased the vehicle licensing fees to cover that shortfall, not to mention that there will probably be more bond measures and tax increases to cover the basic services like school funding and such. There is always give and take - you can't decrease taxes without cutting services, alot of which are necessary for the proper functioning of our 'society' like transportation, education, police and medical services, etc.

#3 not to put too fine a point on it, but that is complete b.s. the rich can afford tax lawyers that know how to protect their assets (i know, because i have several friends who are millionaires. they pay VERY little tax and have shown me some really good ways to reduce my tax burden). as a percentage of total tax income, the 'rich' pay less than half of the relative amount paid by middle income folks. i cannot recall the exact figure - provided by the IRS mind you, but the rich contribution to the tax base is far less than their proportional income. look it up for yourself - www.irs.gov.

don't get me wrong - i don't hate the rich and definitely don't want anyone to be paying any more tax than they absolutely have to. personally i think taxation is completely out of control, but that's just me. however taxation is the accepted method of paying for those things that should be 'transparent' - basic services and such. privatizing everything makes no sense and wouldn't work. look what happened with deregulation - the general public was fleeced and now it looks like arnie is going to try to give it another wack. the uneducated public will probably fall for it again and get taken to the cleaners once more.

#4 no, my head was not up my ass. in fact, there is ample evidence that bush & co. knew about the planned attacks and purposefully ignored them so that they would have an excuse to start executing their 'plan for the new american century'. have you read that document by the way? noam chomsky's article (above) gives a good brief accounting of what bush & co. are trying to accomplish - basically military supremacy. there is also no evidence of ANY link between iraq and al queda - in fact, saddam has been excoriated by bin laden and vice versa over persecution of shiite muslims. saddam hates bin laden, so why would he support him? we're a laughingstock of the rest of the world for even suggesting that iraq was a threat - the germans, french and most of the rest of the U.N. knew this and it's been proven in our inability to locate any WMD's or ANYTHING for that matter. you DO know about the oil pipeline plans for afghanistan that were hindered by the taliban, but now can be completed (ala - guess who!- halliburton and bechtel!). that's just the tip of the iceberg.

most of the u.s. believes in the link between 9/11 and iraq because the media (controlled by those mega corps that pander to bush) spin it that way.

before clinton left office, he passed on all the information they had acquired on bin laden and named him as the biggest threat to american security during breifings with bush & co. how's THAT for coincidence?

#5 - i agree that too much invasion of privacy is wrong, however - no matter how invasive the clinton era may have tried to be, it's got NOTHING on what bush is doing to our basic rights and freedoms. giving any quarter to bush by comparing him to clinton just isn't right. ANY invasion of our privacy or freedoms needs to be fought tooth and nail - once those rights and freedoms are gone, very rarely are they ever recovered. i fought against the "know your consumer act' and i'm doing the same against the 'patriot act'. i think you should as well.

i'm not a republican or a democrat or anything like that. i go for the guy with the best track record and the highest ideals, whether it's republican, democrat, libertarian or green.

i hope you don't take any of this as any kind of attack - it's not meant to be. i just hope to gain some insight into how people can even IMAGINE supporting bush and so my best to educate as much as possible. too many people are caught in the 'media bubble' that has been created - the 'spun' stories, media events and unrevealed information. there IS no 'economic recovery' - this is another 'spun' story. while clinton was responsible for some really stupid policies (nafta, gatt, etc), he certainly wasn't the only cause for the current rate of job loss. bush had the opportunity to stem the flow of jobs overseas or overborder, but he chose not to due to pressure from corporations who lined his pockets for the favor.

anyways - i digress. i just want a return to real american values like decency, fairness, diplomacy, balance between people and environment and fiscal responsibility - none of which are being exhibited by the current administration.

[jakeao]

most of the u.s. believes in the link between 9/11 and iraq

This is the shit that just blows my mind. BUSH has said iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. I can not understand how the american people can think they did. The only person who says they MAYBE did is that fucking crook Cheney, who's old company just happend to get the contract (without any bidding) to fix Iraq after we blew it all to hell. Talk about some people with their heads up their asses.