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chris harris
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Post by chris harris » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:22 pm

The most recent update to Spotify allows for streaming and sync to device at 320kbps.

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Jeff White
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Post by Jeff White » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:22 am

chris harris wrote:The most recent update to Spotify allows for streaming and sync to device at 320kbps.
Do you mean that you have files on your device as a result of this?

Jeff
I record, mix, and master in my home studio, Ch?teau Blanco, and in various spaces in the Philly area. http://jeffwhiteaudio.com/

chris harris
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Post by chris harris » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:33 pm

Yes. With the premium service, you've always been able to sync songs to your device for offline listening.

percussion boy
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Post by percussion boy » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:35 pm

If this link is right, spotify doesn't really get artists paid at any meaningful level.

$0.00029 per play for the musicians?!

Spotify is still the right direction though: Pay for instant download onvenience rather than for a "tangible sound object." Preferably come up with a download file format that can't easily be copied -- otherwise we're back to epidemic piracy (like now).
"The world don't need no more songs." - Bob Dylan

"Why does the Creator send me such knuckleheads?" - Sun Ra
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Jitters
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Post by Jitters » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:39 pm

$290 for a million plays? That is ridiculous!

chris harris
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Post by chris harris » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:22 pm

That link is not right. It's not representative of current payouts in ANY format. It's a graphic from an article written in 2010. And, the same outdated graphic is fueling nearly all of the musician backlash against Spotify. And, no matter how inaccurate, and how fully debunked the graphic is, it resurfaces again & again & again....

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Gregg Juke
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Post by Gregg Juke » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:35 am

Chris,

That graphic has been hotly debated, sure. And I'm currently not with Spotify, so I can't furnish accurate info. But those numbers look a lot like what I'm getting from all other services combined through CDBaby's aggregation.

So, what exactly is Spotify paying? What are accurate numbers for right now? Inquiring minds want to know...

GJ

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Jeff White
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Post by Jeff White » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:11 am

Gregg Juke wrote: So, what exactly is Spotify paying? What are accurate numbers for right now? Inquiring minds want to know...

+1
I record, mix, and master in my home studio, Ch?teau Blanco, and in various spaces in the Philly area. http://jeffwhiteaudio.com/

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Mudcloth
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Post by Mudcloth » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:32 am

Man, I love playing the Devil's advocate.

One of the arguments for using Spotify is that it's legal, as if therefore it's ethical. Big difference between the two. There's lot's of things that are illegal that maybe shouldn't be and vice versa.
This might end up being a fine example of that if the Spotify model doesn't improve. It could end up being that the people who own and run Spotify end up making a ton of money while he artists make extremely little. Sound familiar?
1. It's legal!
2. The artists might make more money in the future. At least they get something.
3. More people have access to your music.
4. It's better than nothing

Sounds like the same justifications club owners use in paying so little money to bands.
"It'll be great exposure!".

The business model is that artists will make more money the more people sign up and pay the monthly fee. Well, that's everybody's hope in business. "If we only increase sales by 10,000% our shareholders will be happy."
Crap in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up faster. If this is the best solution out there so far, we're in trouble.
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How much is a stamp? I'll buy the goddamn stamp.

chris harris
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Post by chris harris » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:23 pm

It's a step in the right direction. I'm not convinced that Spotify will win in the end. But whoever has the most successful implementation of this model will certainly win in the end, versus traditional "ownership" models.

My most recent Spotify payout was approx. $0.005 per play, which isn't great. But it's 17 TIMES the amount listed on that outdated graphic. That's a pretty significant improvement in 2 years.

The graphic also shows an artist (we're using the "artist's earnings" to be more dramatic, right?) earning $0.94 for an iTunes album download. For my albums, distributed through Tunecore, I earn $7.00 per itunes album download. A very significant difference from the inaccurate and inflammatory graphic.

Even if you go with the label revenue plus the artist revenue (which isn't as likely to illicit outrage), their numbers don't match today's reality. If anything, this graphic shows how shitty the labels are, or were in April of 2010. And if these numbers are close to what you're seeing from cd baby, then it suggests that choosing a good digital distro in 2012 is very important.

I expect to be paid less PER LISTEN in a subscription model than I would PER UNIT in a sales model. We all have to choose if it's worth it to us. People who love music as much as we do will likely continue to support musicians by buying albums and merch. But, casual music fans (the 99% who we have trouble accepting are NOT LIKE US) are moving on to other ways of consuming music. Nobody is being forced to cater to this market.

chris harris
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Post by chris harris » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:24 pm

What's unethical about the Spotify model? Are they distributing your music without your consent?

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Mudcloth
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Post by Mudcloth » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:51 pm

chris harris wrote:What's unethical about the Spotify model? Are they distributing your music without your consent?
No. You're right. If you sign up for it at .005 cents per play, then everything is as it should be, ethically. If you don't like it, then pass on it.
It's like non-mandatory share cropping right now, though. .005 cents per play is basically not getting payed at all. That's 200 plays for a dollar. That's about 13 hours of play time. But, if you want your music out there......
Matt Giles
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How much is a stamp? I'll buy the goddamn stamp.

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Post by Galen Ulrich Elfert » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:09 pm

How much does an artist traditionally make per individual radio listener?
Per person dancing to one of their songs at a wedding that paid their SOCAN/ASCAP fee?
Per shopping mall customer who hears one of their songs over the PA system?

percussion boy
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Post by percussion boy » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:06 pm

Galen Ulrich Elfert wrote:How much does an artist traditionally make per individual radio listener?
Per person dancing to one of their songs at a wedding that paid their SOCAN/ASCAP fee?
Per shopping mall customer who hears one of their songs over the PA system?
The big picture question is, Are very good musicians, with, let's say, an audience of five figures or more, going to somehow earn a living wage (calculating for self-employment tax)?

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A BRIEF HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE -- GO ON AND SKIP IT IF YOU WANT--

For the first half of the 20th century, music was usually a brutal way to make a living, financially speaking (as were a lot of other useful trades -- factory worker, school teacher, etc.). The money was in live performance (including live radio) because records usually didn't sell that much.

Record sales rose (a lot) through the second half of that century. Most of the profit off records went to the labels -- the musicians usually got screwed (no money after the advance). However, there was so much money to be made by 1970 or so that what trickled down fed a lot of people -- engineers, studio musicians, songwriters, etc..

Now sales have fallen exponentially and the pot is tiny. If that doesn't change, we will all have folk-quality rather than pro-quality new music to listen to, just like in 1898. Gather round that MPC in the parlor . . .

------------

Wow, this horse isn't moving. I will shut up now.
"The world don't need no more songs." - Bob Dylan

"Why does the Creator send me such knuckleheads?" - Sun Ra
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.
.
.

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fossiltooth
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Post by fossiltooth » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:16 pm

It's a shame to keep seeing those same inaccurate numbers come up about Spotify again, especially this long after they've been debunked.

Spotify isn't perfect, and you don't have to be a fan of the service or its current rates if you don't want to be, but if you're going to have a reasonable debate about it, it helps to start with the facts. I wrote an article about it a few months ago that gives some evidence and context in the numbers for this very reason.

(You can read it here: How Much Do Independent Musicians Really Earn on Spotify?)

Please don't link to conjecture on Gearslutz or terrible non-fact-checked articles. It's not good for anybody. (Sorry, pet peeve.)

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