Buying my first house - a perfectly little music bungalow
- alexdingley
- buyin' a studio
- Posts: 808
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
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Buying my first house - a perfectly little music bungalow
A house fell into my lap last week (cue the cash-register sound from Dark Side)... and I'm gonna be settling on it over the summer. It's at a perfect level of fix-er-up-edness... totally livable with plenty of cosmetic needs.
Namely the upstairs... basically an attic space that's already insulated & has central-air ductwork fed in. I'm gonna be putting in a whole new electric service (presently the house has 100a service & 2-prong outlets everywhere)
So... I'd love some recommendations on cost-effective insulation. Should I buy that dry-wall with the metal film in it (that turns vibration into heat)?
If anyone can point me to resources that will help my electrician (who's a pro & a friend) understand any special needs for keeping audio system powered properly.
I'll post pics throughout the process...
Namely the upstairs... basically an attic space that's already insulated & has central-air ductwork fed in. I'm gonna be putting in a whole new electric service (presently the house has 100a service & 2-prong outlets everywhere)
So... I'd love some recommendations on cost-effective insulation. Should I buy that dry-wall with the metal film in it (that turns vibration into heat)?
If anyone can point me to resources that will help my electrician (who's a pro & a friend) understand any special needs for keeping audio system powered properly.
I'll post pics throughout the process...
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- mixes from purgatory
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- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:26 pm
- Location: Denver, CO
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Anything that sounds too good to be true...Should I buy that dry-wall with the metal film in it (that turns vibration into heat)?
Fill the cavities with fiberglass (or waste cotton, or rockwool), and sheath it with a layer of 1/2", then 5/8" drywall.
Put all of the studio outlet circuits on the same phase. You can put the loghts on the other phase to keep things somewhat symmetric in the box.If anyone can point me to resources that will help my electrician (who's a pro & a friend) understand any special needs for keeping audio system powered properly.
Use variacs if you need dimmers. Or put in a number of smaller lighting loops, each on it's own switch.
Use surface-mounted boxes and conduit, rather than putting a bunch of holes in the shell.
Put in extra outlets - dual gang boxes, closer together than your average residential stuff. Make it so you don't need as many power strips.
If you want to get fancy, ask for isolated ground outlets.
The Jensen whitepapers on grounding and noise reduction are the most factual source of information outside the NEC.
"What fer?"
"Cat fur, to make kitten britches."
"Cat fur, to make kitten britches."
- alexdingley
- buyin' a studio
- Posts: 808
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
- Contact:
I'll all for avoiding snake oil
Hey, The Scum...
Thanks for all the input!
Regarding "if it sounds too good to be true..." I'm all for avoiding hokum products that don't do what they claim... but I believe that the QuietRock stuff might be legit. I worked at a studio, designed & built by Walters-Storyk, and that stuff (I think it was QuietRock 510 by Certainteed) is what every solid wall was made of... (mostly double-layered) and we got a far better isolation rating than we'd planning after the construction was done... All that said, if the money is better spent on rock-wool or limp-mass sheets behind the drywall... I'm down.
Good ideas on the Power needs. I'm planning on putting in way more outlets, and I'll look at isolated jacks.
Thanks for all the input!
Regarding "if it sounds too good to be true..." I'm all for avoiding hokum products that don't do what they claim... but I believe that the QuietRock stuff might be legit. I worked at a studio, designed & built by Walters-Storyk, and that stuff (I think it was QuietRock 510 by Certainteed) is what every solid wall was made of... (mostly double-layered) and we got a far better isolation rating than we'd planning after the construction was done... All that said, if the money is better spent on rock-wool or limp-mass sheets behind the drywall... I'm down.
Good ideas on the Power needs. I'm planning on putting in way more outlets, and I'll look at isolated jacks.
Metal film that turns sound energy into heat?
I've never heard of that. I do know that the parent company (serious materials/energy) of the quiet (rock, seal, etc) company has moved away from acoustic solutions and more into energy related projects.
Any of the pre-manufactured acoustic wall board solutions are very costly and difficult to manipulate (cut/trim etc)...not to mention very heavy.
It's really difficult to beat Sheetrock and green glue double layered wall sheets. Acoustic isolation, just like room acoustics is best looked at as a system.
Your framing and flooring on a 2nd story space are key and all need the same kind of attention in order to achieve any kind of meaningful isolation performance.
As far as thermal insulation goes it's really difficult to beat closed cell sprayed foam. It's not the best for sound, but it does create a fantastic vapor/thermal barrier. Blown in fiberglass is also really great, but it requires more volume to achieve the same r-value.
I've never heard of that. I do know that the parent company (serious materials/energy) of the quiet (rock, seal, etc) company has moved away from acoustic solutions and more into energy related projects.
Any of the pre-manufactured acoustic wall board solutions are very costly and difficult to manipulate (cut/trim etc)...not to mention very heavy.
It's really difficult to beat Sheetrock and green glue double layered wall sheets. Acoustic isolation, just like room acoustics is best looked at as a system.
Your framing and flooring on a 2nd story space are key and all need the same kind of attention in order to achieve any kind of meaningful isolation performance.
As far as thermal insulation goes it's really difficult to beat closed cell sprayed foam. It's not the best for sound, but it does create a fantastic vapor/thermal barrier. Blown in fiberglass is also really great, but it requires more volume to achieve the same r-value.
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- mixes from purgatory
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- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:26 pm
- Location: Denver, CO
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Looking over the QuietRock lit, it looks like they're making prefab panels of multiple thinner layers of sheetrock laminated together, the fancier varieties appear to add cement board in the sandwhich. Their spec'd wall assemblies appear to use regular 5/8" rock on the other side.
They're publishing STCs based on regular test methods, so it's not total snakeoil, but expensive and hard to work with. It's also likely not the weakest link in the room.
I don't see metal foil mentioned anywhere by them - in fact, they make it clear thaere's no metal, so you can still score & snap the panels like regular drywall.
It adds up about like multiple layers of regular drywall. One thing that's common when layering regular drywall, but harder to do with prefab panels, is staggering the seams between layers, to help seal things up.
They're publishing STCs based on regular test methods, so it's not total snakeoil, but expensive and hard to work with. It's also likely not the weakest link in the room.
I don't see metal foil mentioned anywhere by them - in fact, they make it clear thaere's no metal, so you can still score & snap the panels like regular drywall.
It adds up about like multiple layers of regular drywall. One thing that's common when layering regular drywall, but harder to do with prefab panels, is staggering the seams between layers, to help seal things up.
"What fer?"
"Cat fur, to make kitten britches."
"Cat fur, to make kitten britches."
- alexdingley
- buyin' a studio
- Posts: 808
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
- Contact:
interesting
Well.. yeah, now that I look closer at their pages... I see them mentioning "no metal film here... super easy to work with...etc" Maybe that was a passing fad that turned out not to be worth the trouble of working with it.
that said... I remember the build process, and those quiet-rock sheets were really a pain in the ass to mount things to. Most self-tapping screws sorta gave up when they hit the metal-film layer.
Cool enough. All of this has been good input. I just spoke to my electrician friend, and he's proposing a 60a Sub-panel be placed in the upstairs so that we can keep the power runs to the (many many many) outlets short.
All of this excitement will begin around August and we'll see how long it takes... I'm not planning/expecting to have a gorgeous room finished in the first few months of living there, but I'll lay the ground work (electrical pun intended) right away. I suppose this will make for a fun blog
that said... I remember the build process, and those quiet-rock sheets were really a pain in the ass to mount things to. Most self-tapping screws sorta gave up when they hit the metal-film layer.
Cool enough. All of this has been good input. I just spoke to my electrician friend, and he's proposing a 60a Sub-panel be placed in the upstairs so that we can keep the power runs to the (many many many) outlets short.
All of this excitement will begin around August and we'll see how long it takes... I'm not planning/expecting to have a gorgeous room finished in the first few months of living there, but I'll lay the ground work (electrical pun intended) right away. I suppose this will make for a fun blog
Buy Rod Gervai's book Home Studios Build It Like The Pros!
He addresses everything (like how using 2 different thicknesses of sheetrock isn't really any more effective than 2 sheets of the same thickness).
All manner of construction, electrical, HVAC, soundproofing and room tuning.
He also compares all the currently available materials that have actual test data.
It's the best 30 bucks you could spend.
Remember, it costs a whole lot more money to do the job twice!
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/home-re ... 1435457171
He addresses everything (like how using 2 different thicknesses of sheetrock isn't really any more effective than 2 sheets of the same thickness).
All manner of construction, electrical, HVAC, soundproofing and room tuning.
He also compares all the currently available materials that have actual test data.
It's the best 30 bucks you could spend.
Remember, it costs a whole lot more money to do the job twice!
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/home-re ... 1435457171
- alexdingley
- buyin' a studio
- Posts: 808
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
- Contact:
Progress
I've been working on this place for a month now ??ripped out the crumby old attic insulation & tore down the crap walls. Found that there's plenty more structural issues that need addressing, so there's no permanent studio going up in rev1 of the house. but I'm doing a half-decent attic lining with Mineral Wool. learned a lot during this process & there's plenty more to learn.
I raised the ceiling about 6 inches... so that there's actually enough room to sneak an overhead mic above a kit. ... and enough room to hang some QRD panels without having them hit my head.
Here's a pic of current progress.
I raised the ceiling about 6 inches... so that there's actually enough room to sneak an overhead mic above a kit. ... and enough room to hang some QRD panels without having them hit my head.
Here's a pic of current progress.
The space looks like it could be fun!
In an attic situation like yours I'd recommend as much insulation as humanly possible for thermal reasons up there. Your machines and you will be so much happier cool than hot and humid.
Mineral wool isn't any better at thermal or sound transmission in side a wall than fiberglass...so if it's more $$ then I'd save it for acoustic treatment.
Now if you are building acoustic treatment into your inner shell wall system, then I'll be quiet.
In an attic situation like yours I'd recommend as much insulation as humanly possible for thermal reasons up there. Your machines and you will be so much happier cool than hot and humid.
Mineral wool isn't any better at thermal or sound transmission in side a wall than fiberglass...so if it's more $$ then I'd save it for acoustic treatment.
Now if you are building acoustic treatment into your inner shell wall system, then I'll be quiet.
- alexdingley
- buyin' a studio
- Posts: 808
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
- Contact:
Making a little more progress
it's been a couple of weeks... but we're getting some work done. My primary contractor-friend has been scrambling to finish work at his day job. The Pope's visit to Philadelphia is causing all sorts of tradespeople to have really insane schedules, these last few weeks.
That said: we've made headway.
We've got 3 - 20A dedicated circuits up there, and a bunch of shared circuits for miscellaneous electronics. Fresh & clean grounds are setup at the main electric panel & the floors are refinished (hence the paper)
That said: we've made headway.
We've got 3 - 20A dedicated circuits up there, and a bunch of shared circuits for miscellaneous electronics. Fresh & clean grounds are setup at the main electric panel & the floors are refinished (hence the paper)
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