Unbalanced Polarity Flip
Unbalanced Polarity Flip
I have a little mixer without a polarity / phase invert switch, I'd like to make something that will flip the polarity of an unbalanced signal (coming in on a 1/4") without running the risk of shorting something, can I do it with a transformer or a couple of caps or something?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
The previous statement is from a guy who records his own, and other projects for fun. No money is made.
Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
Can't you just do that by rewiring a cable or extension jack?
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Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
if it were balanced, yes, but if it's unbalanced it's just the signal and ground wires, innit?
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Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
ya seems like you don't have multiple phases to flip - just the one phase plus ground coming in on the unbalanced line
what are you hoping to achieve ?
what are you hoping to achieve ?
Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
Yes, a transformer will do this.
Doug Williams
ElectroMagnetic Radiation Recorders
Tape Op issue 73
ElectroMagnetic Radiation Recorders
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Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
I'm assuming drone wants a way to flip polarity to A-B for what sounds better with multi mic recording or since it's coming in on an unbalanced line maybe an unbalanced analog mix
???
seems like you could buy a different mixer for the less than cost of all the transformers and components needed to build a switch and distribute the signal in order to do so - i dunno
???
seems like you could buy a different mixer for the less than cost of all the transformers and components needed to build a switch and distribute the signal in order to do so - i dunno
Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
You could do it with software ...
... by what I mean, invert the track after it's recorded.
... by what I mean, invert the track after it's recorded.
Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
How would I wire it? Would I effectively be lifting the ground?
I'm guessing feed the signal in one side of the primary, and ground the other, and then on the opposing side take the signal of the opposing end of the secondary and use the other end of the secondary as signal ground?
If I feed the signal into a passive DI, would I be able to use the output of that and just use the +ve or -ve signal pin to get the desired signal? Hmm, dang it, Weber used to have little transformers for making a balanced output from a line level, but they seem to have gone.
The previous statement is from a guy who records his own, and other projects for fun. No money is made.
Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
Unfortunately the mixer is a submixer, as in it's mixing stuff before it's recorded
The previous statement is from a guy who records his own, and other projects for fun. No money is made.
Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
I try not to say phases, isn't that a bunch of peoples pet peeve when you confuse polarity and phase? But yeah, I'm looking for 180 degree phase shift, so that when the wave goes up, the signal goes down, kind of thing.I'm Painting Again wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:46 pmya seems like you don't have multiple phases to flip - just the one phase plus ground coming in on the unbalanced line
what are you hoping to achieve ?
The problem is, I have a signal split into multiple signal chains, and then mixed back together, but one particular chain seems to cause the low end to disappear when added in, so I wanted to try inverting the polarity to see if that improved things. I don't have a fancy phase adjustment tool, and I can't do it in the box.
The previous statement is from a guy who records his own, and other projects for fun. No money is made.
Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
I think what Beard of Bees is saying is that a balanced signal has two opposite polarity phases with respect to ground, while an unbalanced signal only has one phase with respect to ground.
If you tie your single phase and ground to a transformer primary, the secondary can have a simple dpdt polarity switch. Any D.I. or isolation box that is transformer based could be modded this way if it does not already have the feature.
If you tie your single phase and ground to a transformer primary, the secondary can have a simple dpdt polarity switch. Any D.I. or isolation box that is transformer based could be modded this way if it does not already have the feature.
Village Idiot.
Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
Yes, if I'm reading you right.Drone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:26 amHow would I wire it? Would I effectively be lifting the ground?
I'm guessing feed the signal in one side of the primary, and ground the other, and then on the opposing side take the signal of the opposing end of the secondary and use the other end of the secondary as signal ground?
Doug Williams
ElectroMagnetic Radiation Recorders
Tape Op issue 73
ElectroMagnetic Radiation Recorders
Tape Op issue 73
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Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
Is the source a microphone? Can it be moved to correct for phase coherence instead of reversing the polarity electronically? Maybe we're talking about a line level source?Drone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:40 amI try not to say phases, isn't that a bunch of peoples pet peeve when you confuse polarity and phase? But yeah, I'm looking for 180 degree phase shift, so that when the wave goes up, the signal goes down, kind of thing.I'm Painting Again wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:46 pmya seems like you don't have multiple phases to flip - just the one phase plus ground coming in on the unbalanced line
what are you hoping to achieve ?
The problem is, I have a signal split into multiple signal chains, and then mixed back together, but one particular chain seems to cause the low end to disappear when added in, so I wanted to try inverting the polarity to see if that improved things. I don't have a fancy phase adjustment tool, and I can't do it in the box.
Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
Otherwise, mebbe get an XLR coupler, open it and rewire the phase on one side. Just be sure to label the coupler for what it is!
See here: https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-GXX-195-XLR ... B000068O4L
https://www.musson.com/3-pin-xlr-phase-reverse.html (expensive version, but good description)
"The phase reverse offers a temporary solution to fix a miswired mic or cable. This female-to-male XLR 3-pin inline device reverses the connection of Pins 2 and 3 between the connectors, which flips the polarity of a balanced audio signal."
EDIT: OOPS! Just realized you said, "unbalanced signal".
I'll leave this up anyway because:
1. it might be helpful;
2. it makes me look dumb.
But see:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ent-device
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... nment-tool (XLR + reamp)
Or there's the out-of-production SM Pro Audio P-Control ...
See here: https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-GXX-195-XLR ... B000068O4L
https://www.musson.com/3-pin-xlr-phase-reverse.html (expensive version, but good description)
"The phase reverse offers a temporary solution to fix a miswired mic or cable. This female-to-male XLR 3-pin inline device reverses the connection of Pins 2 and 3 between the connectors, which flips the polarity of a balanced audio signal."
EDIT: OOPS! Just realized you said, "unbalanced signal".
I'll leave this up anyway because:
1. it might be helpful;
2. it makes me look dumb.
But see:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ent-device
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... nment-tool (XLR + reamp)
Or there's the out-of-production SM Pro Audio P-Control ...
- I'm Painting Again
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Re: Unbalanced Polarity Flip
phases is appropriate here - phases don't exist to flip on unbalanced lines - - you have two phases in relation to ground on a balanced lineDrone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:40 amI try not to say phases, isn't that a bunch of peoples pet peeve when you confuse polarity and phase? But yeah, I'm looking for 180 degree phase shift, so that when the wave goes up, the signal goes down, kind of thing.I'm Painting Again wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:46 pmya seems like you don't have multiple phases to flip - just the one phase plus ground coming in on the unbalanced line
what are you hoping to achieve ?
The problem is, I have a signal split into multiple signal chains, and then mixed back together, but one particular chain seems to cause the low end to disappear when added in, so I wanted to try inverting the polarity to see if that improved things. I don't have a fancy phase adjustment tool, and I can't do it in the box.
first thing I'd do is go over how everything is wired and the types of inputs and outputs on the devices in your signal path - are you mixing unbal and bal devices ? wrong wiring could be causing your problem in that case
if you know everything is connected correctly - try a simple delay in the path first and see if you can get a change in your low end by delaying it against the rest
might give you a clue that it's actually a polarity or phase issue
as for a polarity flipper in that situation and
I dunno if this will work but maybe try this …
the ebtech line level shifter will balance an unbalanced line (also change its operating level - so watch overloading your next piece of gear) the output can be wired to a switch (like the Shure A15PRS) to swap pins 2 and 3 to another line that's carrying ground or one of the polarities off the switch to the next unbalanced input
so it'd be like unbalanced cable (TS) from unbalanced output to the -10 in on ebtech then +4 output on ebtech to a balanced cable TRS wired to XLR -to the [Shure switch] - then - XLR out of Shure switch to cable wired XLR pin 1 to Sleeve / XLR pin 2 to Tip
if this works its probably possible to DIY with parts more inexpensively
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